@smartomato @kumicota @Maholmire @dcc @pwm

> total freeze peaches only exist in a individualist vacuum

This is not real. There is, in fact, no communication needed or possible in "an individualist vacuum".

Freedom of speech is a non-theoretical concept that has existed since forever, it's not a concept I made up, it's got a clear meaning and a history of existing in this country (and also a history of occasionally being fucked up for a decade or so of overreach).

> just like the right to pee anywhere being limited isnt

This is the core of the "freedom of speech is a like a frictionless, massless rope" misunderstanding. The action of flapping your face-meat around while you push air through it is not the same thing as the natural right of all humans to speak their conscience.

This wishy-washy "Oh, you know, you can't really have freedom, what if someone does something bad, what if people don't like it, the government should be able to stop it, but you can mostly talk about most stuff unless the government doesn't like it or people don't like it, you know." It's an anathema, it's the open door for tyranny, it's servile European nonsense, which is the worst kind of nonsense. Under brutal regimes in Asia or South America, the serfs have an excuse: a lot of them have got guns to their heads, they're swinging from helicopters, communists are rolling tanks through their villages, cartels are stringing them up by their own viscera. That sort of person doesn't need to make excuses for working a collective rice paddy, the counter-argument is made by the tank, but people here on fedi spouting European nonsense have no excuse. It's an offense to the English language to excuse the state repressing anything.

It's interesting to discuss the actual concept, but there's no reason to discuss the strawman version: the straw man has no depth and has no proponents, only detractors. Even if we were talking about the thing instead of the caricature of the thing, though, I'm busy. I'm the hell out of this thread.