@livinghell at that point that's stretching debt to society beyond it being a particularly useful term, if that repayment can be negative or positive. And I still think no such debt can exist even if the deck doesn't hold you to a particular form of repayment. I think any such notion is inherently problematic even before we get into egoism and the idea that this notion of free gifts incurring debts and debts needing to be repaid and so on is just moralistic nonsense that we can consistently reject without rejecting anything else important that we care about.