@CosmicTrigger yeah they claim to not see a meaningful difference between humans and animals and honestly either their moral intuitions and perceptions of reality are so vastly different from mine that I don't know how we can ever have a discussion or they are simply dissembling. I hate accusing people of lying so I assume the former, but honestly it's truly baffling to me that these people don't see the vast and qualitative difference between the sort of self-consciousness and intelligence that human beings have, which allows us to have meaningful two-way relationships of mutual respect and aid with real compassion and coexistence among equals