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simsa04 (simsa04@gnusocial.net)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jun-2023 12:34:03 JSTsimsa04 No apprenticeship for either of them available or even imaginable? No sense in appealing to responsibility and self-reliance? Nor pointing out that family (writ large) needs members capable of stepping-in and helping out? So that younger ones can lean on them? Etc. etc.