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   Kris Nóva (nova@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:33:01 JST Kris Nóva

   What about ✨regulated ✨capitalism?

   What’s your take on regulated capitalism?

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     Fridley (fridley@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:34:42 JST Fridley

     in reply to

     @nova Always relies on answering the question of "who makes the regulations". When you have enough power to influence rules and regulations, then essentially you are just fortifying your wealth and influence.

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     Sage Griffin ?️‍⚧️?️‍? (sgrif@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:35:19 JST Sage Griffin ?️‍⚧️?️‍?

     in reply to

     @nova Regulations setting a non-zero upper limit on the amount of exploitation of workers is a marginal improvement at best.

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     Marly Puckett (mpuckett259@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:36:02 JST Marly Puckett

     in reply to

     @nova *gestures around broadly*

     To be more serious I think that it inevitably leads to constant weakening of regulations and we end up here basically. All roads of capitalism lead to the late stage capitalism hell scape we inhabit now, imo, basically.

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     freeformz 🏳️‍🌈 (freeformz@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:36:22 JST freeformz 🏳️‍🌈

     in reply to

     @nova how is what we have now *not* regulated capitalism?

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     Johan Mudsam (mudsam@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:37:37 JST Johan Mudsam

     in reply to

     @nova Growing up in Sweden in that's what it felt like. Sweden is a market economy but with a lot of protection for workers and consumers. It's very hard to do in a global economy where you have freedom of movement for capital and goods but not people. That's why I have always like the European Union, they added the freedom of movement for people aspect.
     I think it's they way forward, regulated capitalism/market economy or what you want to call it.

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     Jeff ♨️ Darcy (obdurodon@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:39:17 JST Jeff ♨️ Darcy

     in reply to

     @nova I for one am not against *some* accumulation of capital, but under much more constrained conditions than today and subject to strong regulation. Some might even say what I want isn't capitalism any more, and I'm OK with that. I'm enthusiastic about free markets but skeptical about focus on capital (including most of today's financial industry).

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     dr 🛠️🛰️📡🎧:blobfoxcomputer: (davidr@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:42:25 JST dr 🛠️🛰️📡🎧:blobfoxcomputer:

     in reply to

     @nova I think it would be a good idea.

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     Zack Cerza (zack@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:43:45 JST Zack Cerza

     in reply to

     @nova A good intermediate step to "no capitalism"... maybe.

     I want to see an income cap implemented, and then a wealth cap.

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     pyromechanical (pyro@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 09:46:42 JST pyromechanical

     in reply to

     @nova all capitalism is necessarily regulated, as it is impossible for it to exist without deliberate construction by a state.

     therefore, I think it's pretty terrible!

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     Aranjedeath (aranjedeath@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 10:02:05 JST Aranjedeath

     in reply to

     @nova no, because it leads people astray as to what the correct solution to their problem is. Capitalism does not need to be less terrible, it needs to be abolished. If you are looking for highly regulated capitalism, you should look at the (Social Democrat) European countries that Americans so love to lust after. Thisese countries can only exist because of what they stole. So it is not a math equation that works.

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     Jennifer Redman (jenred@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 10:03:21 JST Jennifer Redman

     in reply to

     @nova we have regulated capitalism now. The problem is the regulation protects the capitalists from the people - not the people from the capitalists.

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     Karen Bruner (fuzzykb@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 10:17:23 JST Karen Bruner

     in reply to

     @nova there is no system that cannot be gamed to someone's benefit and to another entity's detriment sooner or later

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     MadVikingGod :kubernetes: (madvikinggod@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 10:18:26 JST MadVikingGod :kubernetes:

     in reply to

     @nova we have always lived in regulated capitalism. Even if there were times when it had more or less regulation.

     The problem with any capitalism is when you use markets to solve problems that shouldn't or can't be priced. Yes you can build a market, but it won't necessarily get you the desired outcomes.

     Really we need hybrid economies and a willingness to try something and get rid of it when it doesn't work. We also need to build trust with the government or none of this will work long term.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 10:40:23 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     @nova Define “capitalism.”

     I say this because it’s a word that variously refers to two very different things:

     (1) •systems effects• (emergent, recurring, not even limited to humans) vs

     (2) a •value system• (consciously constructed, historically situated, quasi-religious).

     People conflate these.

     If we mean (1): these systems effects will always emerge; regulating them is good and necessary.

     If we man (2): regulation may mitigate a malevolent value system, but can’t fix it.

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     Steve Cuzner (ttgwbbs@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 11:09:50 JST Steve Cuzner

     in reply to

     @nova that would be mid-20th century capitalism. Unregulated capitalism is the guilded age America or dickensian England.

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     Luke Kanies (lkanies@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 12:46:03 JST Luke Kanies

     in reply to

     @nova it was awesome when we had a powerful antitrust regime.

     Just about the best thing about the Biden administration is their refocusing on the law’s actually on the books, and starting to crack down on monopolies.

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     Kaleb Haugen :antiverified: (kaleb_haugen@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 14:33:17 JST Kaleb Haugen :antiverified:

     in reply to

     @nova capitalism is fairly benign in its unadulterated state, it’s the introduction of regulation that begins to carve out special exceptions and unequal treatment. Regulation, though noble in theory, is the problem with capitalism.
     (I should say that I fully support the ideal and even imperfect application of government. But without “regulation” individual action couldn’t hide behind the shield of incorporation.)

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     Felix Neumann (fxnn@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 17:36:41 JST Felix Neumann

     in reply to

     @nova

     In Germany, it’s called “social market economy”. While we believe that a market economy with competition etc. is truly important, we also do believe that the state needs to regulate and protect.

     We see taxes as important means of redistribution, there’s health insurance for everyone and money for the unemployed.

     Companies shall not become too powerful, and no single person must be left behind. We’re still not there tbh, but I think it’s a good way.

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     Ash Guy :rust: (ashguy@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 17:45:16 JST Ash Guy :rust:

     in reply to

     @nova probably yes.

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     Simon Stemplinger (stemps@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2022 20:14:30 JST Simon Stemplinger

     in reply to

     @nova many European countries have some form of regulated capitalism. It’s a great idea in principle and I’m largely in favour but it shows clear cracks due to globalization and sometimes has trouble keeping up with bad avctors. Corruption constantly needs to be fought but that probably applies to all systems

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     Mardo (mardo@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Dec-2022 02:46:38 JST Mardo

     in reply to

     @nova The only regulations capitalism truly needs to work in my opinion is breaking up companies to forster competition.