Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   jorun (amd64sucks@wetdry.world)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:29:35 JST jorun

   gonna do my own fedi software just to own you all

   • Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:30:00 JST Hélène

     in reply to
     @amd64sucks few make it back alive
   • Embed this notice
     jorun (amd64sucks@wetdry.world)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:32:30 JST jorun

     in reply to

     • Hélène

     @helene i don't care i will own you all then die

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Tosti ? (tost@mk.toast.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:36:51 JST Tosti ?

     in reply to

     • Hélène

     @amd64sucks@wetdry.world @helene@p.helene.moe please
     make the software be so good all the other ones no longer have a need to exist
     free us from this hell

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     jorun (amd64sucks@wetdry.world)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:36:53 JST jorun

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?

     @tost @helene is the situation that terrible ?

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:37:12 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     @amd64sucks @tost im doing fine but she has seen typescript today so she probably isn't
   • Embed this notice
     Tosti ? (tost@mk.toast.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:37:16 JST Tosti ?

     in reply to

     • Hélène

     @amd64sucks@wetdry.world @helene@p.helene.moe PLEASE

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     jorun (amd64sucks@wetdry.world)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:37:19 JST jorun

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?

     @tost @helene alright what's the issues

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     jorun (amd64sucks@wetdry.world)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:42:18 JST jorun

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?

     @helene @tost i wrote typescript today so my brain is probably pretty fucked up too

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:43:17 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     @amd64sucks @tost everyone complains about the protocol when the issues are mostly the databases and user accessibility
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:52:39 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     @amd64sucks @tost sorry i should've told you that better, there's not really any "protocol"
     
     but basically everything is JSON-LD and can be as wildly different in ways you'd never expect
     
     the issues are in handling those differences, handling the relations between objects, things like that, what you want to handle (e.g. do you want Mobilizon specific things, do you want the Misskey funky features, etc), extensibility, etc
     
     and then comes the trouble with user accessibility (does communication still work if a person can't emoji react to that post, how do favs communicate to other software, can this software handle Dislikes, can this software support Markdown and is it possible to communicate it in a less lossy way if not, does this software support spinning 3D text and if not how do i represent it otherwise, etc)
     
     they're all real examples and actual things on the network, by the way
   • Embed this notice
     jorun (amd64sucks@wetdry.world)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:52:41 JST jorun

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?

     @helene @tost the databases as in the technology used or as in the way the protocol asks how stuff should be kept

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     jorun (amd64sucks@wetdry.world)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:56:46 JST jorun

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?

     @helene @tost is it a misskey thing or a fedi thing ?

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:58:18 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     @amd64sucks @tost which part? in the examples i've given, i've included Mastodon, Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Mobilizon, etc
     
     they all behave differently
   • Embed this notice
     Tosti ? (tost@mk.toast.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:59:18 JST Tosti ?

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     @antichrist_hater@shitposter.club @helene@p.helene.moe @amd64sucks@wetdry.world activitypub is a specification that tells you HOW to send the JSON (inboxes, outboxes) and a set of defined "basic" schemas for the JSON (Note, Article, Like, etc) that are meant to be expanded upon

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:59:20 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?
     @helene @tost @amd64sucks
     
     what is ActivityPub then? sounds like they just said "so you send a JSON and it has a status that is the message of the post and then like do whatever the fuck you want with everything else LOL"
     
     The whole point of a standard is to avoid this situation...
   • Embed this notice
     Tosti ? (tost@mk.toast.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:59:21 JST Tosti ?

     in reply to

     • Hélène

     @amd64sucks@wetdry.world @helene@p.helene.moe so let's see
     spinning 3d text: misskey, but also akkoma
     dislikes: I forget who does those but it's not misskey
     markdown: masto purposefully strips it entirely, akkoma/pleroma can read it, misskey... depends
     it really is fediwide

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 09:59:51 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     @tost @amd64sucks dislikes are Friendica, PeerTube and a few others
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:03:03 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @antichrist_hater @tost @amd64sucks that's what ActivityPub is, actually
     you're probably looking for the `toot` context (defined by Mastodon)
     
     https://rhiaro.co.uk is a completely valid and probably the most standard ActivityPub service (much more standard than most fedi software, in fact) and i don't believe Mastodon, Pleroma, Misskey, Honk or whatever I can currently think of federates with it or can communicate with it
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:03:33 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @antichrist_hater @tost @amd64sucks what for, though?
   • Embed this notice
     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:03:35 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?
     @tost @helene @amd64sucks
     
     well then someone should be acting as an authority in this side of fedi and everybody adapt to that standard.
   • Embed this notice
     Tosti ? (tost@mk.toast.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:03:46 JST Tosti ?

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     @antichrist_hater@shitposter.club @helene@p.helene.moe @amd64sucks@wetdry.world
     I am that authority, my rule is law, and my rule is no gods, no masters, give me your most cursed json

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Tosti ? (tost@mk.toast.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:09:34 JST Tosti ?

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     @antichrist_hater@shitposter.club @helene@p.helene.moe @amd64sucks@wetdry.world
     I was gonna say
     devs?
     cooperating?
     that's the one thing less likely than politicians cooperating
     and we all know how that goes!

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:09:35 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?
     @helene @tost @amd64sucks for increased compatibility, people can still add new keys or whatever the frick they do but if there was some kind of central entity that incorporates that into a standard in a way that's not absolute spaghetti code then things would be better maybe, it could be as simple as the devs of the different projects sitting down once every X weeks and publishing what agreement they came to.
     
     Actually forget about it, it would be more drama, people can't behave, let's just keep working with frankestein AIDS-ridden JSONs :laugh_derp:
   • Embed this notice
     tusooa :Cat_girls_Emoji_004: 西风 (tusooa@kazv.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:13:25 JST tusooa :Cat_girls_Emoji_004: 西风

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @helene @tost @antichrist_hater @amd64sucks ActivityPub is a w3c standard ( https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ ) based on ActivityStreams
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:15:16 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @antichrist_hater @tost @amd64sucks i still fail to see much issue in the current state of things with the way servers communicate etc
     
     i don't see it as a concern, standardising, protocol-ising or whatever it is won't improve things
     
     someone implements X, others implement it if they want it and maybe modify it slightly in a way that stays compatible, and it becomes "standard" in this way
     
     no central authority, which is not something you want in a network like this anyway, especially with the likes of PeerTube, Mobilizon, WriteFreely, Owncast etc federating
     
     i believe it's better for things not to be very protocol-ised, in fact
   • Embed this notice
     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:17:17 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?
     @tost @helene @amd64sucks honestly just fix the mastodon bullshit about federating blocks and we good
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:30:04 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @antichrist_hater @tost @amd64sucks there's no need for authority, it's about communicating with other projects
     
     if you want a standard, you can implement Mastodon's or Honk's, and Honk's developer has a nice compilation of all things Mastodon-and-a-few-others-federation-related at https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/ActivityPub-as-it-has-been-understood if you really want a standard
     
     people complaining about the lack of "standard" doesn't mean they work with it or understand it, most of the time, the issues are mostly technical and, well, sources for all projects are available, and that's infinitely better than any standard in my opinion (because it exists and it's the real thing, that's how things actually communicate and work, and it's how some developers have interpreted the network, etc)
     
     we don't need an authority to "report back to" and in fact, most people would absolutely despise that (and for good reason)
     we all like to do things on our own and to mind our own business, and most people here write things for their own small circles
     
     there's a reason FEP proposals are mostly ignored, and it's not because they're bad or anything of the sort
   • Embed this notice
     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:30:08 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?
     @helene @tost @amd64sucks
     
     I'm just saying I've seen lately ppl complaining about the lack of standards, and this way everybody would have a framework in which to work without fear of incompatibilities, and ppl wouldn't have to be reactive to the changes of others, also when I say authority I mean just a somewhat "official" well-though standard, of course the nature of a decentralized network and open source projects means that everybody can do whatever the f they want at the end of the day, but perhaps they could report to this "authority" what they are planning on doing, and some back and forth could happen to avoid incompatibilities.
   • Embed this notice
     Tosti ? (tost@mk.toast.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:30:10 JST Tosti ?

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     @antichrist_hater@shitposter.club @helene@p.helene.moe @amd64sucks@wetdry.world use twitter

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:51:06 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Tosti ?
     • (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥
     @antichrist_hater @tost @amd64sucks >an entity that is an expert in the topic
     who decides on that? is Eugen the expert, or is it Lain Pleroma:tm: or is it syuilo or is it the people who worked on ActivityPub or is it... etc etc
     what's the point in that? what problem does it actually solve? has Google working on XMPP solved XMPP? (as far as I'm aware, not really, and same with Mozilla/New Vector/etc and Matrix)
     
     >at some point you won't be able to check 20 different projects and how each of them do it
     if someone wants to fix issues with federation between two pieces of software, they'll do it, that's what people do and how it all works (and also, that's still what we do, we do check many different projects when debugging issues we encounter, which is the reality of things with a "standard" or "no standard" anyway)
     
     >and by having a serious entity taking care of a standard you avoid carrying bad design just because someone wasnt very bright at one point in time and everybody just adapted
     it doesn't sound like you have too much software dev experience if you're saying that... in fact, that happens the most with standards or when only a very limited amount of software define a standard (see Matrix and Synapse, for example, but they were telecom experts designing it after all, right?)
     
     >for the fediverse to ever be bigger and more serious than what it is now
     you probably want soapbox then, because i don't believe that's what the network is about. i'm not interested in corpo stuff, i'm interested in human relationships and having real links and real, thoughtful communication with people, while having fun here. i don't believe everyone has its place here or needs to be here, either
     
     >by having a standard you can change things substantially to fix past errors
     a huge chunk of Mastodon and Pleroma instances run 2+ years old versions, this is not the reality of things and this is not how standards work either, really, we still use HTTP/1.1 even though HTTP/3 over QUIC is out there after all
   • Embed this notice
     (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥ (antichrist_hater@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Aug-2022 10:51:07 JST (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ jp enjoyer ♥

     in reply to

     • Hélène
     • Tosti ?
     @helene @tost @amd64sucks
     
     authority doesnt mean adolf with a boot on your neck, it just means an entity that is an expert in the topic, for the fediverse to ever be bigger and more serious than what it is now, a standard is a necessity, at some point you won't be able to check 20 different projects and how each of them do it, and by having a serious entity taking care of a standard you avoid carrying bad design just because someone wasnt very bright at one point in time and everybody just adapted, also by having a standard you can change things substantially to fix past errors, and everybody can fix it at the same time on their side.