Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:50 JST GrapheneOS

   Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They're convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google's Play Integrity API and Apple's App Attest API are very similar. Apple brought it to the web via Privacy Pass, which Google intends on doing too.

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:41 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Governments are increasingly mandating using Apple's App Attest and Google's Play Integrity for not only their own services but also commercial services. The EU is leading the charge of making these requirements for digital payments, ID, age verification, etc. Many EU government apps require them.

     Aral Balkan and Steve's Place repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:41 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Instead of governments stopping Apple and Google from engaging in egregiously anti-competitive behavior, they're directly participating in locking out competition via their own services. Requiring people to have an Apple device or Google-certified Android device is anti-competition, not security.

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:42 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     It doesn't provide a useful security feature, but it does lock out competition very well. Services requiring Apple App Attest or Google Play Integrity are primarily helping to lock in Apple and Google having a duopoly for mobile devices. Play Integrity is more relevant due to AOSP being open source.

     Aral Balkan repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:43 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Play Integrity API is highly insecure and it isn't particularly hard to temporarily bypass it. There are frameworks for spoofing the software checks and leaked keys for bypassing hardware attestation can be purchased. However, bypasses are getting harder and are becoming increasingly short lived.

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:44 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Google's Play Integrity API bans using GrapheneOS despite it being far more secure than anything they permit. It also bans using any other alternative. This isn't somehow specific to an AOSP-based OS. You can't avoid this by using a mobile OS based on FreeBSD instead. You'll just be more locked out.

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:44 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Google's Play Integrity API permits devices with no security patches for 10 years. The device integrity level can be bypassed via spoofing but they can detect it quite well and block it once it starts being done at scale. The strong integrity level requires leaked keys from TEEs/SEs to bypass it.

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:45 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Control over reCAPTCHA puts Google in a position where they can require having either iOS or a certified Android device to use an enormous amount of the web. Google defines certification requirements for Android which includes forcing bundling Google Chrome, etc. It's enormously anti-competitive.

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:46 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Banking and government services increasingly require using a mobile app where they can use attestation to force using an Apple or Google approved device and OS. Apple's privacy pass, Google's 'cancelled' Web Environment Integrity and now reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification are bringing this to the web.

     Aral Balkan repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:46 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Current media coverage for reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification misunderstands it and the impact of it. They're bringing a hardware attestation requirement to Windows, desktop Linux, OpenBSD, etc. by requiring a QR scan from a certified smartphone to pass reCAPTCHA in some cases. They could expand it more.

     Aral Balkan repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:47 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Google's reCAPTCHA is planning an approach where they use Privacy Pass on Apple hardware, their own approach on Google Mobile Services Android devices and a QR code scanning system to require an iOS or Google certified Android device for Windows and other systems:

     https://support.google.com/recaptcha/answer/16609652

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:48 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     The purpose of these systems is disallowing people from using hardware and software not approved by Apple or Google. This is wrongly presented as being a security feature. Banks and government services are the main ones adopting it but Apple and Google are encouraging every service to use it.

     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:48 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Apple's Privacy Pass brought hardware attestation to the web to help with passing captchas on their own hardware. Many people saw that as harmless since few sites would be willing to lock out non-Apple-hardware users. Apple and Google are both likely to bring broader hardware attestation to the web.

   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 01:35:49 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     Google's Play Integrity API requires hardware attestation for the strong integrity level and is gradually phasing in requiring it for the more commonly used device integrity level. Apple already has it as a requirement. Over the long term, this will increasingly lock out hardware and OS competition.

   • Embed this notice
     Garrett LeSage (garrett@mastodon.xyz)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 05:48:56 JST Garrett LeSage

     in reply to

     @GrapheneOS My bank has been this way for months already. They got rid of other 2FA methods they used to support and require a Google-approved Android OS or iOS... even to log in to their banking UI on a desktop/laptop.

     It's infuriating, and it means I'm now 100% locked in to a proprietary app on a proprietary OS (controlled by 1 of 2 companies, both headquartered in California, USA) on a proprietary phone for banking and public transit (in Europe), with no alternative possible. 😖

     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 05:51:39 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     • Garrett LeSage

     @garrett We provide documentation at https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide on how apps can use the Android hardware attestation to permit GrapheneOS and other hardware / operating systems which aren't certified by Google. This API supports permitting alternate roots of trust and non-stock operating systems. We use new signing keys for each new device model so new devices won't be listed without them updating it and their list won't include alternate builds of GrapheneOS. Apps should not be doing this at all.

     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     GrapheneOS (grapheneos@grapheneos.social)'s status on Monday, 11-May-2026 05:51:40 JST GrapheneOS

     in reply to

     • Garrett LeSage

     @garrett Most banking apps still work on GrapheneOS but Play Integrity API adoption is expanding and it's nearly impossible to convince an app to stop using it once they've started. We've only successfully convinced a couple apps to stop. We've convinced a lot more apps to start permitting GrapheneOS by using the Android hardware attestation API as an alternative which can be used to permit arbitrary hardware and operating systems but that's still very problematic including for GrapheneOS.