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1. Embed this notice
   Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:15 JST Strypey

   Finally got around to checking out Revolt Chat. It's basically a Free Code Discord clone. If they were going to federate with other chat servers, matrix is probably the best choice, given it's a room-orientated UX and needs a concept like Spaces. If anyone thinks that Revolt could be federated with XMPP, I'd be interested to hear some details on how that would work.

   https://revolt.chat

   #chat #RevoltChat #XMPP #matrix #federation

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:06 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey We looked at several models of integration. Letting people send private messages from one ActivityPub account to another made the most sense.

     https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-e2ee/integration-models.html

   • Embed this notice
     Adam Lein (adam@social.lein.us)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:08 JST Adam Lein

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan @strypey Because we don't already have enough incompatible interpersonal electronic messaging systems, huh? :-O https://bookofadamz.com/the-smartest-messaging-method-is-not-a-segregated-mess-of-whatsapp-signal-telegram-sms-slack-teams-facebook-instagram-wechat-etc/

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:09 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     @strypey We're moving forward with end-to-end encrypted messaging over ActivityPub. https://github.com/swicg/activitypub-e2ee/ MLS, the encryption technology, was meant to scale to hundreds of thousands of people, but my guess is that AP E2EE chats will more likely scale to the more personal handful, max a couple of dozen. I don't think it's a Discord replacement, but it's in the mix.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:11 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     It could be fun to have a friendly competition where one team designed a Discord-a-like UX and interface, maybe using PenPot. Then a team from each protocol camp put together the apps and server using their preferred protocol. Reusing existing components would speed things up, like an AP team building the apps as clients for a fork of the Lemmy server.

     Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks!

     (4/4)

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:12 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     There's a massive opportunity here, for someone to build a UX that would be comfortable for someone used to Discord. 100% Free Code, and connected to a federated server that can provide all the necessary functionality. Whether that's using;

     * XMPP for interop with the Jabber network,

     * Meg/Olm for interop with Matrix rooms

     * ActivityPub for interop with the forumverse (Lemmy, PieFed, Discourse, nodeBB, etc).

     * Something else(?)

     (3/?)

     #Discord

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:13 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     The claims in this post are from a blog post written by one of the devs of Fermi, a client for Stoat competitor Spacebar. I haven't fact-checked this yet, so take with a grain of salt;

     https://blog.fermi.chat/discordAlts/revolt/

     Although it's technically possible to self-host Stoat, the client apps are hardcoded to point to stoat.chat, not your instance. Also a bunch of the code it depends on is under proprietary (Source Available?) licenses, and can be hard to find, as it's not all in one repo.

     (2/?)

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:20:14 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     As you may have heard, Discord alternative Revolt has been renamed Stoat;

     https://stoat.chat/updates/long-live-stoat

     Stoat is designed as a centralised service. So in theory the operators could sell it to Discord, or Xitter, or anyone, at any time.

     To be clear, they show no signs of doing so, and claim they're getting plenty of donations to cover costs. But this was true with Gitea ... until it wasn't. Devs with control over the project accepted VC money, leading to the Forgejo fork.

     (1/?)

     #Discord

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 14:28:16 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey That said, MLS is an open standard, so it's entirely possible that we can bridge to other carrier protocols and maintain E2EE.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 20:46:13 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Worik

     @worik @strypey @reiver You're right; ActivityPub is encrypted from one end to the other.

     The problem is data at rest. AP activities are stored on the sender's server and cached on the receiver's server in the clear. If your server admin, or mine, decides to go spelunking in their database, they can violate our privacy and read our messages.

     This is no better or worse than unencrypted email. However, a lot of people on the Fediverse have accounts on servers they don't trust.

   • Embed this notice
     Worik (worik@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 20:46:15 JST Worik

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Evan Prodromou

     @strypey @evan @reiver

     Mēh! We got the entire web, almost, on HTTPS.

     How painful is that? (it was hugely painful in the day, but no more)

     My point is encrypted by default can work.

     The protocols already exist, and the libraries. I think it is a sensible default

     But I (probably) am not the one to do it.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 20:46:23 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan
     > We're moving forward with end-to-end encrypted messaging over ActivityPub

     I'm aware and watching with interest.

     > I don't think it's a Discord replacement, but it's in the mix

     As @reiver pointed out in a post I replied to earlier, E2EE is not needed by the majority of communities leaving Discord, who use it more like a web forum than a chat room system. Even if their Discord "server" is not public, it's not necessarily sensitive enough to need the overhead of E2EE.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 23:39:27 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey Good luck in this!

   • Embed this notice
     Adam Lein (adam@social.lein.us)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 23:39:28 JST Adam Lein

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan @strypey What's missing from the existing standard protocol for "type message press send" that can't be added and justifies a new protocol that does the exact same thing? If you want to make the ActivityPub identity an email address, GREAT, install Dovecot on the server. I would love that actually.

   • Embed this notice
     Adam Lein (adam@social.lein.us)'s status on Thursday, 12-Feb-2026 23:39:29 JST Adam Lein

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan @strypey Every ActivityPub server already uses email to send private messages for notifications, password resets, etc., right? Every AP server already requires an email address for every registered user, right? Why not use the open standard private messaging system that we already are using?

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 03:57:00 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey sure. Let's start at the top:

     "Will server admins be liable for content privately created by users of their server?"

     Probably not. There's not a lot of precedent in the US or Europe, but it seems like if the admin can't see the content, and is not providing the service specifically to enable crime, the liability is low. Other countries may have different rules.

   • Embed this notice
     Adam Lein (adam@social.lein.us)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 03:57:01 JST Adam Lein

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan There's a good chance it's a UX design problem, not a protocol problem. Can you articulate any counter points to my arguments written in length here: https://bookofadamz.com/the-fediverse-should-avoid-bundling-private-messages-completely-and-implement-this-instead/? I'd love to hear them! @strypey

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 03:58:33 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey

     "I consider public social networks like the Fediverse analogous to large public conferences or meetups or festivals or even a bar."

     You are wrong. The Fediverse was specifically designed the support private distribution; it was one of the main reasons we upgraded from OStatus.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 04:04:46 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey

     "Use your existing preferred private messaging workflow."

     I think this sounds fine. If people prefer that others contact them on Signal or Matrix or email or whatever, they can add links to their profile.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 04:04:48 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey

     "The whole reason other social networks bundle private messaging with public messaging is to take control of their audience and leverage all of your conversations to profit off of you."

     No. People use private messaging for friends, family and colleagues. It's a crucial part of personal intimacy. I did research on this topic here:

     https://evanp.me/2023/05/15/re-designing-the-mastodon-user-interface-for-better-personal-relationships/

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 04:11:55 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey the reply-to idea seems fine, as long as you let people know that their email account info will be shared. I think there are other platforms that follow this pattern at one point.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 04:11:57 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey your idea for sending one-off emails to someone's account seems fine. Lots of blog software has this. I don't think it's a good substitute for an actual conversation platform, but it'd be fine for drive bys.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 04:14:02 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Adam Lein

     @Adam @strypey I don't see anything in here that convinces me not to build a messaging system for the Fediverse.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 06:52:31 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou
     • Adam Lein

     (2/?)

     @evan
     > The Fediverse was specifically designed to support private distribution; it was one of the main reasons we upgraded from OStatus

     At the risk of splitting hair, "fediverse" was coined to describe the OStatus network, so it's more accurate to say *AP* was designed to support private distribution.

     But the point stands. The fediverse needs an E2EE messaging standard if we want to have any chance of replacing FB, for example;

     https://disintermedia.net.nz/farcebook-one-thing-to-rule-them/

     @Adam

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Saturday, 14-Feb-2026 06:52:39 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou
     • Adam Lein

     (1/?)

     Overall I'm leaning towards Evan's position here, but a couple of things;

     @Adam
     > Will server admins be liable for content privately created by users of their server?

     @evan
     > There's not a lot of precedent in the US or Europe

     What about the UK Online Safety Act, or the Chat Control rules being drafted in the EU? Ideally this push for increased state control over citizens' communications will be pushed back, but ...