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   Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Thursday, 16-Oct-2025 17:57:53 JST Abolisyonista

   Read *Ecology of Freedom* they said... Well I **DID**. Cover to mofo cover.

   Okay so (1) organic society is low-key the noble savage trope (2) Bookchin died before the Neolithic Y-chromosome bottleneck was discovered (3) Bookchin high-key uses Hegel's method which is to simply make shit up from thought experiments—great for philosophy but not deep history.

   When Marx wrote *Capital*, he was actually alive to witness commodity relations. Neither Hegel nor Bookchin was alive to witness the master–slave dialectic or organic society, both of which are thought experiments (if albeit useful). In this, I suppose Bookchin was more Hegelian than Marx…

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Thursday, 16-Oct-2025 18:11:20 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     Organic society is fully a thought experiment and has very little basis in reality. You are very free to apply the framework of organic society to deep history or existing Indigenous peoples, but that doesn't change its origins as a thought experiment.

     In fact, I knew a Lumad man who wanted to apply Bookchin's organic society to his experience and oral history as part of the Kalumaran.

     The Neolithic Y-chromosome bottleneck, I guess, doesn't affect Bookchin's ideas much because it's a thought experiment on the emergence of hierarchy, not a serious archaeological work on the Paleo/Meso/Neolithic.

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Thursday, 16-Oct-2025 18:34:55 JST Abolisyonista

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     • aura s

     @angstonautti Yeah well, that's Hegelianism and Western philosophy for you...

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     aura s (angstonautti@mastodontti.fi)'s status on Thursday, 16-Oct-2025 18:34:57 JST aura s

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista i have no expertise on this but reading the ecology of freedom some years ago i got strong 'great man theorist making shit up' vibes xD not that it makes it worthless, it just felt like it could have been a lot more empirically grounded

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Thursday, 16-Oct-2025 18:52:08 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • aura s

     @angstonautti Hegel and Bookchin aren't particularly unique in making shit up for the purposes of philosophy. Thomas Hobbes would do so (anarchy as state of nature anyone?), the barter myth in economics, Newton's alchemy, and this goes all the way back to antiquity with Socrates, Plato, Pythagoras.

     In fact... kýrios Pythagoras, how are flava beans related to humanity again? 😳😳😳