yoasif
@gedankenstuecke @tchambers I don't think you need a lot of faith in Mozilla to use LibreWolf (example), rather than a closed source browser that definitely helps Google balkanize the web.
Even if you argue that by trusting LibreWolf, you also trust Mozilla, Vivaldi's situation seems worse: you have to trust Google + Vivaldi doesn't actually have an opinion on the web platform + it is also closed source.
How is that preferable exactly? It is utterly confusing to me.
Tim Chambers
@yoasif @gedankenstuecke @anthropy I think Vivaldi has a growing future and that they are treating privacy well and I think that they could support servo in the future …and I think on Firefox Gekko frankly don’t have a future - those are not likely to be strategic. That simple.
Tim Chambers
@yoasif @gedankenstuecke @anthropy Vivaldi is small today but steadily growing and team has the right ideas on privacy and open web principles. Firefox is shrinking and making repeated and cascading poor product choices. It’s that simple.
yoasif
@tchambers @gedankenstuecke @anthropy I'm not going to argue with your analysis, but Vivaldi doesn't own their future, as they don't have the revenue to fund their own engine, and the founders sold out and gave up on their old engine (Presto) that existed in Opera.
Why think the future of Vivaldi is brighter than Opera when Opera owned its future by owning their engine?
Beyond that, how is a nascent engine like Servo meant to have a brighter future than two that are actively funded?
Tim Chambers
@yoasif @gedankenstuecke @anthropy True, they are focused on their strategy: maximizing their future o. differentiation through their unique UI and features and walking off Chromium privacy issues …while remaining on the Chromium base for compatibility and development efficiency — and if Servo or others can mature and be compatible they have said in future they’ll see.
yoasif
@tchambers @gedankenstuecke @anthropy PS: Mozilla supports Gecko, but Vivaldi doesn't support Servo.
When Apple took over KHTML, they put in effort and code -- where is this idea coming from that Vivaldi could one day use Servo? Have they lifted a single finger in favor of it?
(Lest we forget that Servo was created at Mozilla).
Tim Chambers
@yoasif @gedankenstuecke @anthropy This convo is going circular. I said from get go their strategy is what I said, but that they are open to future tech like Servo should it get to where it could. They have proven their commitment to the open web and privacy to my satisfaction. And I think their choice on rendering engine makes sense given the givens with Geko and Mozilla's fading. On that note, Ill step out of this convo as its starting to just repeat itself.
yoasif
@tchambers @gedankenstuecke @anthropy So zero investment. Just sounds like a hope and prayer -- or more likely, just a way to market themselves to people who want them to care about the open web -- even though they don't care to invest even a penny.
They support Chromium, not Servo.
yoasif
@tchambers @gedankenstuecke @anthropy 🤷 Vivaldi's own blog posts don't support what you claim, so I can understand why it feels circular.
PS: I looked for any statement from anyone at #Vivaldi confirming that they would be open to using Servo in the future -- I can't find anything like that -- not even a hint. Just community members asking, and other members saying that maybe it might be possible in the future.
You don't have to link to it, but I *am* curious if someone can find evidence.
Tim Chambers
@yoasif @gedankenstuecke @anthropy Moving to assuming my bad faith is not a good look.
"How likely is it that down the line we’ll change our chosen engine or develop our own? "
Their ansewer: would depends of the state of future engine and integration:
"The short answer is that we depend on the many modifications we have made to the Chromium code, and 'translating' these to a new engine would not make much sense ... *at the moment.*"
So what I said, they'd see. https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-different-from-chrome/
Tim Chambers
@yoasif @gedankenstuecke @anthropy Apologies if I misread your comment: I thought you were suggesting my motive for dropping out of convo was due to reasons other than what I stated.
yoasif
@tchambers @gedankenstuecke @anthropy I wasn't moving to bad faith, I was opting you out of providing a response, since the conversation had grown tiresome.
Nothing on that post about Servo.
I can understand you "think" that #Vivaldi can support #Servo in the future, but unless there are further comments you aren't linking, they hardly seem interested.
They seem just as interested in moving to WebKit (that is, not at all).
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