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   LaF0rge (laf0rge@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 01-Sep-2025 21:27:34 JST LaF0rge

   So there's a decades-old mechanism (and actual standard) how programs lock serial ports on unix-like systems in /var/lock. it's used in practice even in 2025 and #systemd >= 258 simply breaks it with "we don't care". I am not a systemd opponent, but that kind of behaviour [without a prior community-wide discussion or providing patches for known-affected projects and a grace period] is just alienating users and developers https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/38563 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1110980 #systemd #debian

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     Peter H. Fröhlich (phf@mastodon.acm.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Sep-2025 08:29:51 JST Peter H. Fröhlich

     in reply to

     @LaF0rge That said, I know that at least on Linux serial devices can be locked directly via the API and without creating lock files anywhere. I guess it comes down to what systemd actually wants with serial devices. At first blush, it seems that there's no reason whatsoever to touch them. But that never kept the systemd people from touching stuff they have no purpose touching in the past so... 🤷

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Peter H. Fröhlich (phf@mastodon.acm.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Sep-2025 08:29:52 JST Peter H. Fröhlich

     in reply to

     @LaF0rge Well, Microsoft never met a standard they didn't intend to ruin. So ... this makes a great amount of sense?

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Sep-2025 08:33:54 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Hans Hübner
     @LaF0rge @hanshuebner Or if you're going to break things ecosystem-wide, at very least announce it well enough in advance so that the concerned projects can update, like usually done with deprecations.
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     Hans Hübner (hanshuebner@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Sep-2025 08:33:56 JST Hans Hübner

     in reply to

     @LaF0rge While I'm in the systemd haters camp, I also tend to acknowledge that the older the legacy gets, the smaller the fun becomes when implementing things in the operating system space. It is hardly fair to tell those who love contributing today that they have to support all the crap that we've learned and lost on the way here.

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     LaF0rge (laf0rge@chaos.social)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Sep-2025 08:33:56 JST LaF0rge

     in reply to

     • Hans Hübner

     @hanshuebner if it was a kernel ABI, it would also not be broken. I regret that the same "dont break existing applications" rule does not apply for core parts of userspace infrastructure. Yes, it is annoying to keep compatibility. But IMHO it is a matter of professional pride and courtesy to consider even minority users. In #osmocom we have a rule that old apps always need to work with new libraries. Period. Sure, we only have 17 years of legacy so far, and it's a small community. But still.