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   Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-May-2025 04:45:32 JST Rich Felker

   • Jay Hankins

   @jhankins This is absolutely true, but I do think people miss feeling like their labor is producing something useful to people like themselves, rather than being a complete and utter bullshit job making their boss even richer and making people like themselves deal with more and more bullshit in their everyday lives.

   • Embed this notice
     Jay Hankins (jhankins@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-May-2025 04:47:14 JST Jay Hankins

     in reply to

     @dalias also a great point!

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-May-2025 07:09:23 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛
     • Jay Hankins

     @fedops @jhankins The idea of a jeans factory in the sense that exists now, producing millions of units with the intent that most be thrown away for tax writeoffs and most of the rest worn a few times and thrown away, is obsolete anyway if we want a world that will continue to be livable.

     Imagine instead though that labor were about developing and operating manufacturing technology to produce only what's wanted on demand, materials that last and that can be efficiently reclaimed when they don't, etc.

     Instead of jobs to convince & manipulate people to shop for garbage.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     fedops 💙💛 (fedops@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 06-May-2025 07:09:24 JST fedops 💙💛

     in reply to

     • Jay Hankins

     @dalias I still don't think there's going to be very many powerpoint artists looking for a job in a jeans factory at jeans factory wages though.
     @jhankins

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 06-May-2025 07:17:28 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛
     • Jay Hankins

     @fedops @jhankins Oh absolutely. I'm just exploring how "making things" vs "making things shit" fits into discontent & alienation experienced in labor.

   • Embed this notice
     fedops 💙💛 (fedops@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 06-May-2025 07:17:29 JST fedops 💙💛

     in reply to

     • Jay Hankins

     @dalias yeah that would be nice. And in itself a much bigger change than "just" leftshoring manufacturing jobs again.

     I don't think the phone sanitizers currently at the helm grasp this though, and it won't be in their interest anyway Seeing as they wrongshored everything for their own profit in the first place.
     @jhankins

   • Embed this notice
     fedops 💙💛 (fedops@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 06-May-2025 07:24:28 JST fedops 💙💛

     in reply to

     • Jay Hankins

     @dalias am frequently thinking back to how quality and long-lasting products were made 100+ years ago. Let's say a cast-iron range, or a trolley car.

     A worker was probably at least somewhat proud of their product. But even then capitalism alienated them from this feeling through hardships of labor and existential dread.
     @jhankins

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 07-May-2025 01:24:38 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛
     • sbi
     • Jay Hankins

     @sbi @fedops @jhankins I'm not sure why this is a reply to what I said...?

   • Embed this notice
     sbi (sbi@toot.berlin)'s status on Wednesday, 07-May-2025 01:24:40 JST sbi

     in reply to

     • fedops 💙💛
     • Jay Hankins

     @dalias @fedops @jhankins I have done both and I can tell you that jobs in factories are much harder than the desk jobs most of us are used to — even if they happen to be more meaningful than many desk jobs are (which most aren't). If you want better conditions in your job, then you do not want to build cars on a conveyor belt or saw jeans. No, you just want: better conditions in your job. (It would of course be great of the people at the conveyor belt would get better conditions, too.)