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   Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 07:54:02 JST Sean Kleefeld

   Here's a comparison of populations between the US and Soviet Union/Russia. Russia is consistently larger by ~20 million until the early 1990s, but starts dropping for about 15 years before starting to creep back upwards. Why do you suppose that is?
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     Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 07:54:02 JST Sean Kleefeld

     in reply to

     What happened is that the Soviet Union collapsed at the end of 1991. The poverty rate in the region skyrocketed from 1.5% in 1991 to 49% in 1993. Life expectancy dropped from 64 to 57. Alcohol-related deaths rose 60% and deaths from diseases went up 100%.
     2/
     https://online.norwich.edu/online/about/resource-library/consequences-collapse-soviet-union

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     Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 08:15:43 JST Sean Kleefeld

     in reply to

     When the Soviet Union collapsed, that meant thousands of people were suddenly out of work. People who did important government jobs like maintaining infrastructure like heat and water, providing access to health care, etc. Not only could those newly unemployed not afford basic necessities, but whatever safety nets had been in place for anyone in similar situations vanished. Thousands upon thousands died as direct result of USSR's collapse.
     4/

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     Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 08:15:43 JST Sean Kleefeld

     in reply to

     The reasons for the Soviet Union's collapse are irrelevant right now. My point is that when you suddenly throw a substantial portion of government employees to the unemployment lines and suddenly lose access to vital government services, people will die. Hundreds of thousands of people will die. Hundreds of thousands.
     5/

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     Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 08:15:43 JST Sean Kleefeld

     in reply to

     Look at this chart again. It took a full quarter century just to get Russia's population back to where it was at the start of 1991. Not from some major plague. Not from war. From a lack of functioning government.

     And that's not even considering quality of life. That's just looking at it from a binary life + death position only!
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     GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) repeated this.
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     Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 08:15:44 JST Sean Kleefeld

     in reply to

     The poverty rate continued to remain as high as 20% in 2004. In 2011, 53% could still only afford basic necessities (which technically isn't poverty, but not by much).
     3/
     https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15705850508438926

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     GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) (greenskyoverme@ohai.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 16:51:33 JST GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)

     in reply to

     @SKleefeld We also stopped having several children between 20 and 25 and instead have 1 after 30 (also because of poverty and because of free childcare disappearing)

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     GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) (greenskyoverme@ohai.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 16:52:42 JST GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)

     in reply to

     @SKleefeld “whatever safety nets had been in place for anyone in similar situations vanished”
     There were no safety nets for the unemployed because nobody was unemployed before

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     Elias Probst (eliasp@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 16:52:54 JST Elias Probst

     in reply to

     @SKleefeld ...and with US' life expectancy already being significantly worse compared to other "western" nations, the actions of Musk/Trump don't bode very well for the US-american population...

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     Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 16:52:54 JST Sean Kleefeld

     in reply to

     • Elias Probst

     @eliasp Like I said, it is absolutely not hyperbole to say hundreds of thousands will die as a direct result of these asswipes.

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     Sean Kleefeld (skleefeld@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 16:52:55 JST Sean Kleefeld

     in reply to

     When people today are warning that cutting this program or eliminating those government employees will kill people, this is what they're talking about. They are absolutely not being hyperbolic. We can point to exactly what happens when those systems go away suddenly...

     Hundreds of thousands of deaths.

     /end

     GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) repeated this.