Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 02:07:48 JST Paul Cantrell

   Half-formed thought, maybe incoherent, maybe a seed of insight, maybe deeply wrong:

   “The avant garde in the arts in parts serves a function akin to gen AI model poisoning, except for the whole of human culture instead of just our machines”

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 02:11:25 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     The way in which this is just totally wrong is that people’s model poisoning efforts are purely incoherent garbage, whereas the thing that makes avant garde art is that it is compelling and worthwhile in some way; it •must• be so in order to work.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 02:12:46 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     The seed of insight there, perhaps, is that both work to undermine a model that is collapsing toward an ouroboros state of meaningless self-repetition. Challenging the pattern returns us to human mindfulness, awareness, reflection.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 02:43:55 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Matthew Sackman

     @hylomorphism
     Something in that orbit! …Though a thing I'm always noting about the 20th C modernist movement is that for a long time it was not at all about rejecting the past; it was about making newness by embracing the past. Only later did it become a movement of excessive novelty.

   • Embed this notice
     Matthew Sackman (hylomorphism@mastodon.me.uk)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 02:43:56 JST Matthew Sackman

     in reply to

     @inthehands seems to me to rhyme with "Destroy your heroes".

   • Embed this notice
     🔏 Matthias Wiesmann (thias@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 05:01:00 JST 🔏 Matthias Wiesmann

     in reply to

     @inthehands Are you saying we should do more dadaism?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 05:01:00 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • 🔏 Matthias Wiesmann

     @thias
     yes yes guess get finger finger finch fill
     fill the bup cup cuddle hunch
     and train it, train the thing on it
     trains and trainers and traits

   • Embed this notice
     Ben Judson (shiftingedges@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 05:09:53 JST Ben Judson

     in reply to

     @inthehands I would say it really depends on the type of avant garde art. Sometimes the intent is around subverting the ways art is converted into money, which is kind of similar to poisoning AI. But I think the range of goals for adventurous art is so broad, it’s hard to compare to any activity with a narrow goal.

     More importantly perhaps, the function of the art can change over time, so deeply subversive music gets absorbed and 20 years later it becomes grocery store music. Yet - if you listen closely, it’s still subversive!

   • Embed this notice
     Joe Fabisevich :verified: (mergesort@macaw.social)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 05:27:47 JST Joe Fabisevich :verified:

     in reply to

     @inthehands This would only work if models were still scooping up the entire internet and regurgitating it, but the state of the art models all do data processing to only use the best tokens, and build atop those with reinforcement learning.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 02-Feb-2025 05:27:47 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Joe Fabisevich :verified:

     @mergesort
     Tell that to the Amazon and Claude bots who have been scooping up the effectively infinite entirety of https://wookieepedia.org for •months• now