Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
@kkarhan I ran and hosted a bunch of XMPP servers a while back. It was a pain to use, and it was easy for users to make mistakes and accidentally send messages in the clear.
You are making people les safe. Last time: please stop doing this in my mentions and replies.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
@contrapunctus @agturcz yes, I am aware of all these. I am also aware of Simplex, Briar, and whole slew of completely decentralized IMs. And I made a long ranty talk about shortcomings of Signal that one time, got pretty popular on media.ccc.de.
And I still react badly to unnecessarily alarmist hot takes that can lead regular folks to make bad technological decisions.
contrapunctus ✊🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
@rysiek @kkarhan @agturcz An awful lot of people say they've used #XMPP "a while back". But they're often unaware of the best of XMPP, and have an unfairly negative view of it.
Did you happen to try...
...#Snikket for hosting?
https://snikket.org
...apps like #Quicksy and #Prav which use phone numbers for easy onboarding, same as #Signal #WhatsApp or #Telegram?
https://quicksy.im
https://prav.app
...featureful clients like #Cheogram #MonoclesChat #Gajim #Movim etc?
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
@contrapunctus @agturcz first of all, please don't explain centralization to me, I was talking about it before it was cool:
https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5319_-_en_-_saal_g_-_201312282330_-_technomonopolies_-_rysiek
Secondly, "some clients don't support X" is a deal breaker. Because now regular folks need to track and think about whether or not their contact's server supports a safety feature they rely on.
Third, "if someone sends a cleartext…" is not anywhere near being acceptable for a communication tool like that. Sending cleartext should not be *possible*.
contrapunctus ✊🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
@rysiek @agturcz Then, I confess to being confused about what you mean.
Why did you find it to be "a pain to use"?
Some clients don't have end-to-end encryption enabled by default - I hope that will change some day, but I never found that to be a dealbreaker. If someone sends cleartext, me and my friends immediately ask them to enable OMEMO.
Still, no feature or convenience is worth using a centralized silo. Reddit, Twitter, and Meta are proof enough.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
@contrapunctus @agturcz I had worked with people reporting on Panama Papers, I had worked with people working with sources whose threat model included men with guns who were trained and willing to use them.
This kind of "no biggie if someone sends cleartext, we can ask them to enable OMEMO" stuff is what can get people killed. Advocating for tools like that is putting real people in real danger.
I am glad XMPP is improving, but it is simply nowhere near a Signal replacement yet.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
@contrapunctus you seem to be ignoring what I and others are telling you about how dangerous what you're doing – promoting XMPP into a space it has no business being in in its current state – is.
I am done with this conversation.
contrapunctus ✊🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
@rysiek @agturcz Sounds like @snikket_im is your best bet, then. All Snikket clients have OMEMO enabled by default. And this way you actually can actually trust the operator, i.e. yourself, and control exactly what cloud services are used (including "none").
And Signal is seemingly not the perfect solution it's being made out to be, either.
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