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1. Embed this notice
   jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 08-Jan-2025 04:57:09 JST jonny (good kind)

   i have said this so many times but oh boy do i think p2p systems that tie themselves to a secondary coin economy where people sell extra resources to an undifferentiated peer mass are a dead end. just shooting yourself in the foot right out of the gate engineering scarcity into a model that can uniquely facilitate abundance.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Wednesday, 08-Jan-2025 04:57:06 JST feld

     in reply to
     @jonny
     
     > why would anyone seed on a public bittorrent tracker?
     
     How do I even get access to the good private trackers anymore? All the ones I had ages ago are dead and gone
     
     These days I just get my content from Usenet where I don't have to worry about anything and I'm only limited by my internet connection's max speed
   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 08-Jan-2025 04:57:07 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     Permanent immutable storage a la chia or what IPFS mutated into doesn't only buy you into a ton of really bad technical choices, it completely misses what makes p2p work. It's an antisocial idea, but bigger than that it's an abiotic idea: forests burn and are reborn, communities cluster and collapse. the world breathes. Any appearance of permanence is an illusion.

     google drive only appears permanent because profit extraction is a temporarily stable modality of life. the internet archive only appears permanent because of a ton of people are collectively committed to its survival. People love to seed things they care about for absolutely no reason. If people stop caring about something, it is fine for it to disappear and return later if it needs to.

     some people need to read Parable of the Sower

   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 08-Jan-2025 04:57:07 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     why would anyone seed on a public bittorrent tracker? It makes absolutely no economic sense - you put yourself at legal risk for absolutely no benefit to yourself, reputational or otherwise. And yet people do! a shitload of them! they'll go very far out of their way to subscribe to VPSes, rent seedboxes, build their own servers, etc. to do it!

     Something like chia instead actively punishes freely sharing resources. You have to prove that you are wasting a ton of resources in order to sell some of it. I am not sure if you can "just seed" on chia or filecoin, but why would you when you can waste a ton and sell it? This is true whether the storage is on or off chain.

     Filecoin boasts that it stores 4.1EiB of data (on 50EiB of storage) but there are only like 2000 active nodes. Arweave currently has 699 active addresses (and storage is like $16/GB). On the pirate bay, the Wicked torrent has more seeders (7203) than there are miners on filecoin -- and that's for a FILE YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET AND USE instead of some abstract storage economy.

     People have files, want to get files, and will share some files too. adding a whole economy to that turns off 99% of everyone - it's antisocial in more ways than one. Protocols don't need an "incentive layer" because that layer is just society and people who want to store and share stuff, and if you let them they'll organize their own systems.

   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 08-Jan-2025 04:57:08 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     this is one of the major examples of what i mean by p2p project need to declare their ideological commitments and their social model: https://neuromatch.social/@jonny/113784456157559734

     the idea that things can or should be guaranteed to be stored forever immutably on someone else's computer(s) by bootstrapping a storage economy is an ideological rut that i don't know a good name for. distinct enough from just being cryptolibertarianism that that frame doesn't quite fit. it's similar to Classical RDF's vision of a web of immutable Pure Truth on the web.

   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 08-Jan-2025 04:57:09 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     "it doesn't work"