Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 02:41:53 JST Adrianna Tan

   Listen to immigrants. Stop talking over us

   https://mastodon.online/@bentoh/113763115951330559

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:02:00 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo other than Canada, there aren’t many places where society is relatively open to immigrants socially and you can be fully accepted. Elsewhere in the world isn’t an option. I’ve tried them all.

     There are a lot more jobs. There’s a lot more money. Everything that I care about is here (even though I only came here 7 years ago). That, after all the BS about this place, it still feels like home more than my own home did, and certainly more than other ‘better’ countries.

     Even Houston has more academic and job opportunities than most capital cities of other countries. The scale isn’t comparable

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:02:01 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     @skinnylatte as an immigrant, i don’t understand why someone would chose the US over anywhere else in the world. the thread you linked outlines many of the reasons why it doesn’t make sense to me.

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:30:04 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo hot take but the average Republican racist is better educated on race issues than many ‘nice’ white people in many other settler colonies.

     The process is hard but for people not from India / China, 80% less sucky. The California and New York bubble is nice and nicer than most other countries I’ve lived in. The struggles are real but the payoff feels worth it to me.

     Once you in, immigration status is barely a topic of discussion or contention. It is no one’s business other than you and immigration lawyer or HR.

     Every country including my own is going through a send the immigrants home madness right now. I’m just picking the best possible option

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:30:05 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     @skinnylatte how many jobs do you need? — I’m pretty sure other countries are more welcoming to immigrants than the US is, all the threads you’ve shared about the hoops and loops people have to jump to get in paint a very clear picture: the country doesn’t want you there. Sure, maybe the california diaspora bubble does, but the country doesn’t.

     All I’m saying is that I legitimately struggle to see why people would choose to go over that process vs the one from other countries.

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:52:42 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo I think Venezuelans might disagree about Chile. Like with every immigration story, it really matters who you are and what you’re leaving. Coming from Singapore the only step up in quality of life and career and personal life is California or New York. Nowhere else in the world is worth it. It’s a different story for someone who just needs to go somewhere.

     Chinese and white people who move to Singapore have a very different experience from Indians who move to Singapore, and even then there are class differences like did you move there to write code or build a house. There are no easy immigration paths, they all suck and are getting worse.

     The UK for example won’t even let spouses of citizens move there easily anymore. I know so many people who can’t go back coz they don’t make enough money to sponsor their spouse. It’s the degree to which things suck for you specifically and how much you can deal with it.

     I refuse to put up with UK or Aus sucky immigration coz well, I don’t want to be there enough to want to put up with it.

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:52:43 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     @skinnylatte What you say is true, Australia is not welcoming to immigrants. My point is, many people move into other countries that ARE welcoming to immigrants and end up with similar positive life situations, while going thru more welcoming processes. For example, many have moved into Chile. Choosing the US seems like choosing the hard path, and I don’t see why.

     I’m really happy you found a place you can call home.

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:55:26 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo for Ben (who is from a country close to mine) and I I guess it does feel like the best possible one for those reasons. That for us specifically it is the best option. It used to be the UK for people from that part of the world but that era is long over.

     Every study of international immigrants to the U.S. vs Europe shows better outcomes in education, mobility, career, over generations.

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:55:28 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     I think my point really is that the US is not the universally best possible option. I’m really glad it worked for you! but it’s disingenuous to call it as “the best possible country to immigrate to”. For most, it’s hardly an option.

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 03:57:25 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo even for ‘illegal inmigrants’, the reason why tens of thousands of middle class China and India is now at the southern border is because once you get in you have a 9 in 10 chance of getting work authorization. Faster than a H1B. Of course, you have to survive. But people wouldn’t do this sort of desperate journey unless they truly believe it’ll work out.

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 04:09:16 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo sorry, I don’t see a middle class person from a big city in China or India going to Latin America now. It’s not a lateral move and it doesn’t make economic or social sense. I certainly don’t see myself moving there. People don’t make these decisions to find a nice new place to live. They do that to find a place to live that they can grow in and be a part of.

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 04:09:17 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     @skinnylatte I’m really glad that your situation worked out well and I have no doubt this was the best path to you.

     I still want to stress the idea of “universal best place to immigrate to”, you can’t really just look at the US and Europe to have perspective. The real gems are in latin america, Canada, and the rest of the world outside of europe. A lot of countries need people and are more welcoming! at the legislative level as well as services offered to immigrants

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 04:30:21 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo I know exactly one person from India in Chile. He’s a founder. That’s it. I know there’s a large historical Chinese diaspora. I can’t explain why they’re not going to Chile, I’m saying it’s certainly not yet a major migration destination for them. If it were easier and something they want to do, they’ll start coming.

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 04:30:23 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     just earlier in the thread you were mentioning how the US process is particularly hard to people from India and China.

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 04:30:24 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     @skinnylatte have you even been there? the amount of recent immigration from asia has been interesting to see, but maybe not from middle class people. Honestly a lot of people have made good business there, it’s full of chinese investment. — I see where you’re coming from, I’m not trying to say you made the wrong decision.

   • Embed this notice
     Adrianna Tan (skinnylatte@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 04:50:01 JST Adrianna Tan

     in reply to

     • José Albornoz

     @eljojo the cost of living in chile is much higher than india while the salary is about the same.

     you could make an argument for quality of life, but an immigrant from urban india isn't getting most middle class jobs not without 5+ years of spanish lessons — nor would they want to. a middle class person from india *has* a good quality of life with what they can afford in a place where many people suffer, but you really don't at all once you are middle class.

     people aren't looking for a secret hack for immigration, they're looking for 'is it worth it to go somewhere now?' 'what am i giving up everything and everyone i know, and all of my citizenship privileges, for?'

     i will be very skeptical if there is significant immigration from china or india to chile. i see the numbers now: other than venezuelans and peruvians, it's largely digital nomad types. it's a very different form of immigration.

     if i wanted a lifestyle arbitrage immigration, i would go to taiwan or thailand. while fully aware that's not immigration, that's an extended vacation.

   • Embed this notice
     José Albornoz (eljojo@ruby.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 04:50:03 JST José Albornoz

     in reply to

     @skinnylatte the key to my perspective is that by going to less popular places, you can often find easier immigration paths while obtaining equivalently good quality of life. kind of like a secret beach. for example, I see Canada as one of those places. I think of Chile as such too, it’s just less known yet.