Rich Felker
A big principle I go by is to entirely refuse to participate in attacking a target, even if they may have done something wrong, if the attacks are coming from a bad-faith source.
A flip side to that is that, even in an individual or organization has clear problems, it can be worthwhile standing up for them, funding them, supporting their defense when they're attacked by a bad-faith party.
Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
Rich Felker
@lxo Um, the campaign against that asshole is entirely good faith.
Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
Rich Felker
@lxo And to clarify: bad faith means people who don't share our values, wanting to exploit our values to harm someone in a way that's to their advantage.
If the complaints about RMS being a sex pest/serial harasser and pedophile were coming from misogynist creeps at Microsoft, and there were no other existing complaints, that would be what I'd call bad faith.
In reality they all come from ppl who share our values but are driven away from Free Software by his presence.
Rich Felker
@lxo Read the fucking room.
Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
Rich Felker
@fabio No. Because there are millions of people doing bad things. You cannot let far worse people control which of those you put your attention on in ways that empower them.
Fabio Manganiello
Rich Felker
@fabio You can't create justice working with a sampling-biased set of bad things to care about when that bias is under the control of someone who wants to further injustice.
You need either unbiased or biased-for-good information.
Rich Felker
@fabio Even police know this, despite being bastards. If you go into a police station trying to report someone you obviously have a beef against for some petty law violation, they're gonna laugh at you, not go arrest the person.
Rich Felker
And to clarify: good vs bad faith is a matter of whether they actually share values of justice with you, especially in the area of what the accused has supposedly done, or if they're attempting to exploit your values that they normally ridicule to get a behavior they want from you.
Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
You can't create justice working with a sampling-biased set of bad things to care about when that bias is under the control of someone who wants to further injustice.
You need either unbiased or biased-for-good information.so you understand the problem, you just don't accept that the bait you swallowed was poisoned, even though the people who pushed those lies and twisted those words know it very well. that doesn't make you the perpetrator of the libelous fake news, but it makes you an accomplice in failing to check it, spreading it, and attacking an innocent person
Rich Felker
@landley How many times are you going to intentionally twist stuff I say?
Legal attacks on nazis are not bad-faith. None of what I said above applies to ACLU bankrolling nazi legal expenses.
Rob Landley
@dalias Weren't you the one mad at the ACLU for defending people you don't like?
Rich Felker
@landley And I'd appreciate if you'd refrain from referring to *literal nazis* (like carrying banners with swastikas and other nazi symbolism) as "people I don't like", implying that it's some sort of personal preference.
Rob Landley
@dalias Over the years, "am I doing more harm than good here" has gained increasing weight in my decision-making process.
And I've watched a lot of my theoretical allies succumb to divide and conquer "let's you and him fight" diplomacy, in multiple contexts.
You make very different decisions than I do on both counts. Oh well.
Rich Felker
@landley The post you replied to was literally about NOT doing that.
It was a subtoot to the Wikipedia dialogue, in the context that, even for all its faults, we should not say "hey maybe he's right, WP sucks", but stand up for them, and aim to make them better.
Rich Felker
@landley OTOH the ACLU, which you brought up, rarely even speaks up for *civil rights*, much less win any big victories, while they jump at every chance to "defend to the death his right to say it" the most abhorrent hate speech and accompanying violent threats.
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