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   Rehn (rehnsturm256@shota.house)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Dec-2024 09:23:20 JST Rehn

   Gnosticism sounds really blasphemous. Wholly removed from God, the world is seen as an ugly mistake despite all its natural beauty, but people have their little hidden divine they need to reawaken.

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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Dec-2024 09:23:18 JST djsumdog

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     • Druid
     Well the creation story is different though YAH/the Demiurge was the failed creation of Sophia, one of the creations of the real father God (one of his many .. Archons? I forget the term, but in Gnosticism there are many other beings and a whole story before the creation of man).
     
     She created something without the knowledge of aid or help of the all-father, and it ended up being depraved. She hid it on it's own little platform and asked for forgiveness. It was granted, but she had to be on the level near her creation where it was failing to make his own creatures like everyone else made from the father was able to. The others felt bad for Sophia and convinced her creation to breath into what he was trying to make. Therefore man was given a piece of the divine Sophia. The Demiurge got angry and made them forgot and cast them out. Sophia made them eat the fruit to try and save them.
     
     There are variations to the story, but the basics of Gnosticism is that we are being deceived about the true nature of the world. If we could only awaken the secret knowledge, we would be liberated. Most common liberation stories are Gnostic (sometimes be accident, but sometimes very intentional). The Matrix, Plato's Cave, The LEGO Movie .. they all follow that pattern. "Once you know the truth it will set you free."
     
     The trouble with the whole Plato's Cave and its variants .. how do you know you're really out of the cave? What if you just move into a different cave, or are given a different more compelling story, to make you fight against your brothers when really no one knows the truth?
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Dec-2024 09:23:19 JST Druid

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     @RehnSturm256 Yes, in terms of Abrahamic religion, Gnosticism is very much the arch-heresy. But the most important part that you’re missing here is that Gnosticism (usually) very much blames the Abrahamic god for the evils and deficiencies of the world, because it (usually) directly conflates Yahweh with the Demiurge/Yaldabaoth.

     The part that puzzles me is this: Gnostics generally believe that Yahweh lies all throughout Genesis (for example he can’t find Adam in the Garden despite claiming to be omniscient, and doesn’t follow through on his promise killing Adam when he finds him) yet they believe his claims about being the supreme god and creator of the world, and come to the conclusion that an evil god must have created an evil world.

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     Rehn (rehnsturm256@shota.house)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Dec-2024 09:23:38 JST Rehn

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     • ♥SnailsAreGay♥ :verified:
     • Druid

     @druid @EscBoy

     God’s omniscience aside, because Abrahamic followers will say things like, “erm, He purposefully ignored the serpent in the Garden to test his creation!” or other such convenient ideas, I just find it hard to look at the world without humanity as something evil or mistakenly made.

     At worst, the world is chaos, with life flourishing and decaying and flourishing again. And at best? Well the feeling of soil beneath our feet, the sunrise and set on the horizon, the green of the trees. All these things are great beauty. Meanwhile humanity - when given the chance and without any limits - would destroy if all to fill his vices or greed.

     djsumdog likes this.
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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Dec-2024 09:29:13 JST djsumdog

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     • ♥SnailsAreGay♥ :verified:
     • Druid
     I think the nature of live is to grow, and it has to compete with other life. Unchecked growth ultimately leads to starvation. There's no real morality in this; it's just chance and entropy.
     
     The things that are beautiful, it seems like it took hundreds of thousands of years to evolve these ideas and concepts ... to have a language where complex things are defined as sounds .. (to even have a word for vibrating the air to transmit sensory perceptions .. sound .. what and advance word and concept!)
     
     Morality is a weird thing. Tribes and families and groups had to collectively reward things that seemed to benefit them and punish those which harmed their growth.
     
     I wonder if there are sapient species of spider-like creatures in the universe, who would find everything we consider beautiful as disgusting, and things we find disgusting they would find beautiful .. because different things would be needed for both societies to thrive.