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   Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 22:02:08 JST Rich Felker

   @marcan I'm not a user and won't be so maybe my opinion is irrelevant, but that kind of attitude really rubs users the wrong way. Users may actually have good technical reasons for caring about the mechanism of how something is done. "This is our project, our limited resources, and we're not working on that because it's not the important next step to us" is valid. "You're wrong to want that" is patronizing.

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 23:22:06 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Manawyrm | Sarah | 38c3 ☎️6502

     @manawyrm @marcan The problem is it presumes the user has a particular XY problem when the user need might actually be something different.

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     Manawyrm | Sarah | 38c3 ☎️6502 (manawyrm@chaos.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 23:22:07 JST Manawyrm | Sarah | 38c3 ☎️6502

     in reply to

     @dalias @marcan "You're wrong to want that and here's why" sounds good to me as a user. I learned something and know what to expect now.

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     mort (mort@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 20-Dec-2024 00:28:04 JST mort

     in reply to

     @dalias @marcan He's right though. Nobody *actually* wants Asahi to support S2RAM. People want Asahi to use less power in sleep mode. People who ask for S2RAM *assume* that "adding support for S2RAM" is a quicker way to achieve that than improving power management to the point where S2IDLE uses almost no power in sleep mode.

     If you disagree, please, can you link to someone laying out why they want S2RAM for a reason other than sleep power consumption?

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 20-Dec-2024 00:28:04 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • mort

     @mort @marcan Yeah s2ram doesn't look like it has much appeal over s2idle when the latter is implemented properly, since bulk of power consumption is dram refresh. I'm actually interested in ability to power down dram banks after swapping/discarding, as a "better hibernate to disk" (fast resume) but I doubt most hardware can do that.

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     ben (benjamineskola@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 20-Dec-2024 02:37:01 JST ben

     in reply to

     • Manawyrm | Sarah | 38c3 ☎️6502

     @dalias @manawyrm @marcan Does anybody actually specifically need one type of suspend over the other? Because it seems pretty reasonable to me to assume that most people just care about suspend being ‘good enough’ and don’t care about how it’s done.

     And given limited developer capacity it seems pretty reasonable therefore to focus on the thing that’s easiest to improve, not on the thing people think they want.

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 20-Dec-2024 11:14:48 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Manawyrm | Sarah | 38c3 ☎️6502
     • ben

     @benjamineskola @manawyrm @marcan Hibernate to disk can be a real need for security or longevity of sleep (weeks or months) or transit through somewhere that full power off/battery removal is mandated. But I don't see obvious plausible requirements for s2ram.

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 20-Dec-2024 11:17:05 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • mort
     • Longhorn

     @never_released @mort @marcan s2idle with nothing but a few MB of SRAM powered would be the holy grail of sleep UX, IMO.

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     Longhorn (never_released@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 20-Dec-2024 11:17:06 JST Longhorn

     in reply to

     • mort

     @dalias @mort @marcan it's something a number of HW vendors have been playing with since quite a while but the SW story is complicated