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   Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:05:22 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

   Critically this works because uv itself doesn't depend on Python, effectively short-circuiting the circular dependency of needing Python to manage Python.

   That in turn is made easier because uv is written in Rust, which is really nice for making platform-neutral CLIs with very few dynamic library dependencies.

   https://mastodon.social/@tintvrtkovic/113624029759144252

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     Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:05:42 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     So Rust makes it easier to install Python, which makes it easier to install Rust. What a world.

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     Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:12:53 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     By comparison, libmambapy, has 37 dynamic dependencies, including stuff like libyaml-cpp, libssh2, libxml2, and so forth. All great once you have everything up and running, but does make it harder to have a very minimal point to start your bootstrapping.

     ```

     $ docker run -it --rm condaforge/miniforge3:latest bash -c "ldd /opt/conda/lib/python3.12/site-packages/libmambapy/bindings.cpython-312-x86_64-linux-gnu.so | wc"
     37 144 3933
     ```

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     Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:16:11 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     Between nix-shell and uv, I don't have a user-local Python on my PATH at *all* now, and everything is just perfectly fine. I haven't even noticed in over a year that all I have on my path is /usr/bin/python3.

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     Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:17:13 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     Anyway, my advice to Python newcomers no longer starts with "install Python," which is cool.

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     Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:20:59 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     The above thread can also be read as a plea for Python library authors to stop making setup.py files and get on board with pyproject.toml instead. That is a correct reading.

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     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:36:20 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     @xgranade *cries in py2app*

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     Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:36:20 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Glyph

     @glyph Ooooof.

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     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:40:35 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     @xgranade never let it be said that I am not _ruthlessly_ committed to the bit, though: https://github.com/glyph/Pomodouroboros/blob/6af247c8e4a4d7700edcabbf7984af20d05a74fb/py2app_setup.py https://github.com/glyph/Pomodouroboros/blob/6af247c8e4a4d7700edcabbf7984af20d05a74fb/pyproject.toml

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     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:40:35 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     @xgranade (pretty sure that this _shouldn't_ work, and yet…)

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     Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ (xgranade@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:40:35 JST Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Glyph

     @glyph How in the.... wait... what?