Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
"Big batteries at home could catch fire! They are a risk!"
No: "the findings indicate that the probability of an home storage systems (HSS) fire is very low (0.0049 %) and is 50 times lower than for a general house fire."
"But solar panels catch fire quite often!"
No: "Compared to the generally low fire probability of an HSS, the probability of PV systems catching fire is a further three times lower"
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
(cue the naysayers that will point at what they think are methodical flaws in the preprint. I salute you! Please contact the authors with your criticisms as the preprint needs peer review from experts like you!)
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
@jwildeboer Do you know how these numbers have changed over time? Battery densities have increased, which would naively lead to an increase in fire risk, but the safety designs (especially safely venting pressurised hydrogen that can build up when the cells deteriorate) have also improved. I wonder if there was a period when they were very unsafe, or if it was always just a marketing-driven perception.
Apan
@jwildeboer "The fires in HSS in Germany were determined using web crawling for the year 2023 because no other data was available" ..... Yeah, seams like an reliable method.
Apan
@jwildeboer I would argue that it's up to the authors to do their work, it's not the readers.
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
@Apan It's a preprint, so the authors are interested in peer review. You can find contact details right at the top of the paper if you are interested in making this better. If you only want to criticise and complain, that's also fine. But not something I care about that much :)
Jesper Larsson
@jwildeboer 0.0049% doesn’t sound low? It should mean that five in a thousand systems catch fire…
Peter Bindels
@jwildeboer I'm mostly surprised the more common things of "damaged equipment still used", "power extensions used beyond rating" and "outdated house wiring" are not listed.
dexternemrod
@jwildeboer
I wonder how a wood/coal oven would fit into this chart ...
Wary Jerry
@jwildeboer FWIW, I recently had an albeit non-scientific discussion with the fire marshal of a city about the fire hazard of batteries. My take away from the discussion is that we have to segment the discussion into two - batteries that are made by reputable companies with reasonable safety standards and those that are super cheap (he mentioned buying through Alibaba as being problematic, but guessing both good and bad can be bought there but that people shopping there tend to look for the cheapest thing with the specs they want)
robloblaw
@david_chisnall @jwildeboer
The huge variability in quality of lithium batteries for smaller emobility devices may contribute. Scooters and ebikes are burning down houses frequently enough for fire departments to be warning of the risk.
BYD hybrids are notorious for catching fire, as are some of the EVs LGChem supplied batteries for.
These are hopefully just teething problems of an industry rapid developing.
For stationary storage, LFP chemistries are extremely safe.
robloblaw
@jwildeboer @david_chisnall
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-25/nsw-battery-fires-fire-and-rescue-government-standards/104251516
"The department has referred to battery fires as "the fastest growing fire risk" in the state and people are four times more likely to be injured by a fire that originates from a lithium-ion battery than other sources."
https://news.dfes.wa.gov.au/media-releases-feature-stories/media-release-spike-in-battery-fires-sparks-warning/
“Since 2020, structure fires caused by lithium-ion batteries have increased in Western Australia by more than 85 per cent,” Commissioner Klemm said.
robloblaw
@jwildeboer @david_chisnall
My comment was in response to "I wonder if there was a period when they were very unsafe, or if it was always just a marketing-driven perception."
There is an accurate perception of some small lithium ion batteries being dangerous due to poor quality and regulation. Same with SOME EVs.
This perception bleeds over into large house batteries, which are much better constructed, tested, and regulated. Sorry I was unclear.
robloblaw
Byd hybrid fires
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ht9MuTYXsTE
1:13
It's the ICE components causing fires. So again, it is a perception issue, with bad faith actors spreading FUD.
翠星石
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