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1. Embed this notice
   jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 10:35:37 JST jonny (good kind)

   Bluesky took down my bad, misspelled Elsevier brand impersonation account within like 2 days and maybe 5 posts. Idk dog a network where you can't clown on brands does not seem like a very open network to me. Brands.town is more resilient to corporate cease and desist orders than bluesky is lmao. Even if I hosted this from my own PDS and used did:web, even with composable moderation, at the end of the day, bluesky corp has final say over what can exist on the app.

   • Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 21:33:11 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     It's a genuinely puzzling moderation problem - since there is such a thing as a global network to be in control of as operationalized by the relay + appview, you need to have global moderation for actually harmful content, and that also makes you liable for damage to profit from things like impersonation. So they are sorta forced into this position where the network is ostensibly "open" and moderation happens through labels and blocklists and whatnot, but they also must have some baseline moderation at the appview and relay level, and so there isnt room for disagreement about what that baseline is: we agree no Nazis, yes, but we disagree about no brand impersonation. On fedi I could make a different instance, and you could choose not to federate with me if you wanted to ban brand impersonation, or we could make a totally separate instance like brands.town that is just brand impersonation. On bluesky there is no such option, or at least as long as the interaction with the network is synonymous with bluesky the appview.

   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 21:33:36 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     • Sean Tilley

     @deadsuperhero the law keeps taking away my elsevier impersonation account lmao

     Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 21:33:36 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     Moderating impersonation is also genuinely hard in general - there is an undefined gray area in parody as a rhetorical form between true impersonation and impersonation for the sake of comedy. I mean that's what Hustler v Falwell was all about. Impersonating a brand to skim credit cards or whatever is very different than impersonating a brand to spoof their heinous business practices, but in both cases you need someone to at least momentarily believe it is real in order for it to work.

     Not being able to moderate with the care needed to parse harmful impersonation from parody is exactly one of the reasons why we need moderation systems that can be smaller than global moderation, that can be responsive to individual problems and people. On fedi they coulda messaged me and we could have had a conversation about making the parody more obvious, but you can't do that when you're moderating 20 million accounts.

     Edit: im not saying parody itself is divinely important, just that this is one example of how local moderation matters generally

     Hyolobrika repeated this.
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     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 22:06:36 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Glyph

     @glyph
     > if you're hosting on their PDS with their auth and everything then decentralization doesn't really apply

     That's exactly the situation. BS is a con.

     @jonny

     Hyolobrika likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 22:06:37 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     @jonny I thought the whole "composable moderation" thing is that they don't need to / won't do this?

   • Embed this notice
     Glyph (glyph@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 22:06:37 JST Glyph

     in reply to

     @jonny sorry, to rephrase — if you *did* use self-hosted PDS, did:web instead of did:plc, what is the *mechanism* of this moderation action? if you're hosting on their PDS with their auth and everything then decentralization doesn't really apply

     Hyolobrika repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 22:08:14 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to
     @jonny Composable moderation does nothing. The company mod feed is built-in and you can't remove it IIRC.
   • Embed this notice
     jonny (good kind) (jonny@neuromatch.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 22:09:42 JST jonny (good kind)

     in reply to

     I thought I was pretty far over the line of obvious parody! I hadn't even gotten out of "recycled jokes from @ elsevier @ brands.town" yet

   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 22:10:37 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • Glyph
     @glyph @jonny relay