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   Graydon (graydon@canada.masto.host)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 05:11:42 JST Graydon

   Blue Öyster Cult's "Don't Fear the Reaper" caused a bunch of aigh-suicide-promotion! responses back when it came out; none of the rather many articles about it stopped and said anything about the general pervasive fear of death that came from the Cold War or the general loss of legitimacy attaching to society when you have to just accept some very much non-zero chance of nuclear annihilation as a cost of participation.

   I kinda think the Cold War got rid of discussions of legitimacy in general.

   • Charlie Stross repeated this.
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     Graydon (graydon@canada.masto.host)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 05:11:41 JST Graydon

     in reply to

     What we're having is a crisis of legitimacy, if we want to talk about it as politics. So we ought to discuss it.

     The incumbent position, the basis of hegemonic power, the focus of conflict in the 20th century, whatever you want to call it, was over control of fossil carbon.

     It turns out fossil carbon based industry destroys habitability, _has_ destroyed habitability (some of it; we don't know how much because big planet, much lag), which renders it illegitimate; nothing is worth extinction.

     Charlie Stross repeated this.
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     Graydon (graydon@canada.masto.host)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 05:12:48 JST Graydon

     in reply to

     So we've got an axiom lock; a whole lot of people derive their status and prosperity from fossil carbon, and they're not willing to give it up. The cognitive process stops at "lower status" and "hell no".

     The serious money has introduced a few more cases of axiom lock (the axiomatic construction of "man" as requiring owning women vs the idea that women are people with agency; the idea of money as material divine love vs accounting convenience) to keep the argument away from habitability.

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     Waiting for the Tide (nichelle@wandering.shop)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 05:35:24 JST Waiting for the Tide

     in reply to

     @graydon
     I agree with your stance. But many Christians believe the world is a fallen/evil place by its nature, and so saving it is not a thing. Plus, other living beings do not have souls, so the fact that plants and animals are becoming extinct isn't really cause for alarm. God is in control. The Rapture will come. People aren't the cause of climate change, if it even exists, because people can't alter God's creation. I have this from the horse's mouth. There's no reasoning with this mindset.