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   Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:31:28 JST Fish of Rage
   It's crazy how many Windows programs will run on Windows XP with 192MB of RAM and a single Pentium core yet now Windows 11 won't run on an average computer from 8 years ago (ignoring artificial TPM requirement and the actual minimum RAM way above 4GB.)
   
   The number would be even a lot higher if you took away arbitrary compilation restrictions that make things run on Win10 or higher.
   
   This isn't theoretical, I deployed a bunch of Windows XP VMs a couple years ago for a project because it would run Windows programs on almost no resources.
   • mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: and soberano like this.
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     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:33:28 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to
     @sun Something something bloat.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:34:01 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to
     There obviously are reasons that the re-implementation of Windows over time to make it more secure could take more resources. But you have to convince me that it actually requires THAT MUCH MORE resources. There is no technical excuse for it. The real reason is probably a pact with manufacturers to help sell more PCs, which in turn sells more OEM Windows licenses.
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     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:34:51 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to
     @sun It's kinda similar for gnu/linux generic distribution like ubuntu, I'm repeating but compare ubuntu 9.04 and today's latest and you see the difference in speed it's frightening.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:36:09 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @sun > away arbitrary compilation restrictions
     not all arbitrary per se, depends which windows apis you use and if you used stuff like simd instructions that are too new
     
     most every interaction with w32api uses the sizeof field as a version check to see which code path it downgrades to
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:39:24 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn Just arguing there are a ton of programs that require Windows 10 that don't have to at all.
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     海 (tsugumi@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:39:35 JST 海

     in reply to
     @sun that reminds me of how a lot of important shit in the petrol industry still uses software made for windows xp
     Fish of Rage likes this.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:39:59 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • 海
     @tsugumi I was in China recently and their airport computers at Guangzhou were running Windows 7.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:41:39 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • The Forbidden Dreamer
     • 海
     @ForbiddenDreamer @tsugumi I think CE finally recently went out of support, or at least they just announced EOL is approaching.
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     The Forbidden Dreamer (forbiddendreamer@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:41:40 JST The Forbidden Dreamer

     in reply to

     • 海
     @tsugumi @sun Lots of industry runs on XP, and CE still exists as well.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:56:00 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to
     You can point at improvements in things like "Memory Integrity" which keeps the machine more secure while keeping compatibility with the W32 API which is worthwhile and required rewrite. Still not sure that's why the system takes so much more resources, yes it requires a virtualization enabled CPU though.
     
     If you go outside Windows API though these are all band-aids keeping shit running. Better OS doesn't need all this shit.
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     Surströmming (selfhost arc) (xian@ak.kazuma.family)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:56:06 JST Surströmming (selfhost arc)

     in reply to
     @sun i honestly don't understand why an operating system needs to be packed to the brim with every feature possible and hog a lot of resources, instead of letting the user pick after the fact.
     
     Or well, i guess i understand if you put it in the context "my mom would use this"
     Fish of Rage likes this.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 06:59:11 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to
     I am not arguing for using Windows XP forever, just that the massive explosion of requirements just has to be bullshit.
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     Nudhul (nudhul@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 08:03:21 JST Nudhul

     in reply to
     @sun iirc nobody at microsoft was there when windows was first compiled so they dont understand how the guts of it works and they keep piling shit on top of it hoping its not so inneficient that its impossible to run. cant fix it because they dont know it.
     Fish of Rage likes this.
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     Del Rio Kun~ (zrdr_delrio@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 08:44:00 JST Del Rio Kun~

     in reply to
     @sun I am arguing for using windows XP forever also make floppy disc drives standard, again.
     Fish of Rage likes this.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 20:46:32 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @sun >re-implementation of Windows over time to make it more secure
     That has *not* been done.
     
     They've sporadically rewritten a lot of it, except wrong, with some rusty plates installed over some of the holes in the swiss cheese.
     
     One example of why it's so shit is because they've stopped using GNU make as the buildsystem and have gone with their own terrible buildsystem that likes to return just -1 if anything goes wrong.
     
     The performance degradation is due to incompetence rather than a pact with manufacturers - the OS itself is designed to break itself after just a few years due to garbage in the registry etc, which makes people go and buy a new computer.
     
     Manufacturers try to go with the slowest possible hardware to keep the profit margins up, considering that microsoft takes a huge chunk out of it, so they don't want the base version to be a bloated pig.