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1. Embed this notice
   SwiftOnSecurity (swiftonsecurity@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 04:36:29 JST SwiftOnSecurity

   You ever be working and remember the British underground has been soaking in heat from the trains for a century and it's starting to cook them alive

   • Embed this notice
     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 04:36:27 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     @munin @SwiftOnSecurity London doesn't get "chilly weather" this century.

   • Embed this notice
     Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️ (munin@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 04:36:28 JST Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @SwiftOnSecurity

     and yet they haven't implemented any use of this carefully-hoarded resource to manage energy costs in chilly weather.

   • Embed this notice
     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 05:04:50 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     @munin @SwiftOnSecurity A tube train draws up to 6MW of juice when starting from cold. There are about 180km of underground tube tunnels in the London network. Trains average 33km/h and run about 2-5 minutes apart, so there are probably about 100 trains running underground at any given time. That's a LOT of waste heat …

   • Embed this notice
     Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️ (munin@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 05:04:51 JST Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Charlie Stross

     @cstross @SwiftOnSecurity

     I expect not, with all that untapped heat resourcing just leaking through the foundations like that!

   • Embed this notice
     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 05:43:37 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
     • Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     @munin @gsuberland @SwiftOnSecurity However, most of the tube tunnels are dug deep—only about 30km are cut-and-cover, which might be feasible for trenchless pipes. The rest are contained in cast iron tunnel walls dug through clay up to 58 metres below the surface. Running heat exchange pipes down there would be quite a challenge!

   • Embed this notice
     Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️ (munin@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 05:43:38 JST Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Charlie Stross
     • Graham Sutherland / Polynomial

     @gsuberland @cstross @SwiftOnSecurity

     Yes, making actual use of this would require installing heat exchange pipes throughout the area, and the requisite infrastructure for heat pumps and the like.

     But we already know how to do that kind of thing: trenchless pipe installation is a well-practiced field.

   • Embed this notice
     Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️ (munin@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 05:43:39 JST Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Charlie Stross

     @cstross @SwiftOnSecurity

     ok so, per https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-housing-survey-2022-to-2023-energy/english-housing-survey-2022-to-2023-energy-report the modeled heat requirements are 231 kWh/m^2/yr, so that means your cold-start train could service ...a little under 26 square-meter-years' worth of heat.

     So, a hundred tube trains would give you 2600 square meter years' of domestic heat, under UK gov't models.

   • Embed this notice
     Graham Sutherland / Polynomial (gsuberland@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 05:43:39 JST Graham Sutherland / Polynomial

     in reply to

     • Charlie Stross
     • Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     @munin @cstross @SwiftOnSecurity moving it through the earth is the hard bit. we've had a few cases where tube tunnels got so hot it wasn't safe for workers. kinda wild how much hot air gets trapped down there considering we build open shafts to the surface where warm air would normally convect.

   • Embed this notice
     Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️ (munin@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 07:01:29 JST Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Charlie Stross
     • Graham Sutherland / Polynomial

     @cstross @gsuberland @SwiftOnSecurity

     Sure would! it'd employ a large number of engineers, and likely have synergy with, e.g., petroleum workers and other people who do earthmoving and installation of infrastructure.

     Like other forms of resource extraction, building the infrastructure would provide substantial economic benefit of itself.

     Also, it'd fuck up the market for oil drilling equipment and make that harder to obtain, so, y'know, win-win.

   • Embed this notice
     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 07:01:29 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
     • Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     @munin @gsuberland @SwiftOnSecurity Drilling to install heat exchangers under the foundations of some of the most expensive real estate in the world to reclaim waste heat for a city where air conditioning is a rarity and summer temperatures are now spiking regularly into 35 ℃ territory, yeah, that's going to give a return on investment (not).

   • Embed this notice
     Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️ (munin@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 18:49:49 JST Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Charlie Stross
     • Graham Sutherland / Polynomial

     @cstross @gsuberland @SwiftOnSecurity

     Oh, certainly not for a commercial endeavour, no.

     This is more along the lines of 'new deal' style infrastructural investment as a jobs program type work, if someone were to actually take it seriously.

     Tho also, in keeping with the nature of extractive colonial logic, what do I care about how the locals value their historical sites when there's a resource I can grab out from under 'em? ;3

   • Embed this notice
     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Nov-2024 18:49:49 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
     • Fi, infosec-aspected 🏳️‍⚧️

     @munin @gsuberland @SwiftOnSecurity Very few jobs in deep tunneling, compared to the investment costs. (Look into Crossrail if you want to get some idea of what tunneling under London involves.)