Mark Kraft
@kkarhan Even the early communists before the USSR were pretty clear that communism would and should naturally be an evolution within democracy.
The way forward isn't to topple the least horrible state. It's to create things of worth within it that are superior, provide bounty and freedom for the people, don't fall prey to capitalism or unfair distribution / a tragedy of the commons, and are designed to scale and grow, until it wins by simply being superior to what existed previously.
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This reformist argument of your is untenable. A new system can, and must, come from the current system, but it can not be created within the current system, specifically if we're talking about socialism as the new system and capitalism and the current one. The two systems (socialism and capitalism) are antithetical systems that can not exist together. If you want one, you must get rid of the other.
Mark Kraft
@Radical_EgoCom @kkarhan It is literally how most major systemic change has happened, going from monarchy to parliamentary to republic to representative democracy.
Even in cases where there were revolutions, it usually happened in environments where the rights of the people generally helped to lead to a systemic change. So the idea that systems don't change in ways that veer towards the next major shift is simply not historically tenable, regardless of ideological beliefs.
Mark Kraft
@Radical_EgoCom @kkarhan "If you want one, you must get rid of the other."
Most historical systems have not been either/or. Most are hybrid. You can argue that hybrid systems are not pure __________, but that's an ideological, not real-world, debate.
If you care to cite exceptions to this, feel free to do so.
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I never said that systems don't change in ways that veer towards the next major shift. I said the exact opposite: "A new system can, and must, come from the current system,...". What I did say is that even though the conditions for the creation of a socialist society can, and must, be created within the current capitalist society, socialism can not be created inside capitalism. Capitalism must be abolished in order for socialism to be created. 1/2
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Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production. Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. You can not have both. Either the means of production are public or they're private. Social Democracy (a hybrid of capitalist and socialist components) is still a form of capitalism because it allows private ownership of the means of production, so it and other similar hybrid systems aren't proof that socialism can be created within capitalism. 2/2
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