Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Håkan Geijer (hakan_geijer@kolektiva.social)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 17:29:54 JST Håkan Geijer

   A lot of progressives and radicals in the US are making the mistake now of downplaying the utility of owning a firearm, many of which are saying it's better to learn first aid.

   "I've never used a gun to take or protect a life, but I have used first aid."

   Learn first aid, by all means please. Don't get a firearm (or knife or pepper spray or baton) if you can't learn to use it or doing so would be too risky to you. But looking at the past 20+ years of society and thinking those rules will apply under a rabid fascist regime if pure folly.

   First aid can only be rendered if someone is there to drive the attackers away. If fascists jump you or start shooting at you, knowing how to bandage a grievous wound means very little if said fascists are still actively attacking.

   "Not everyone needs to learn self-defense. That's what *community* self-defense means."

   Not everyone can, but everyone who *is able* should learn the means of defending themselves and others. *You* are part of the community, and you too need to defend it. Deferring it to some nebulous third party (even if it's "antifa") is how you get warlords or are left with no one to protect you.

   You (yes you personally) have some responsibility to learn to take care of yourself, be it disaster prep or self-defense, because if you aren't prepared, you become a burden on those who are. You become a drain on critical and limited resources. Yes, mutual aid exists, but we can stretch that much further and take better care of those who can't fully care for themselves if everyone who is able first takes care of themselves.

   Don't get caught in a dangerous situation. Don't do so unarmed. Don't get injured. You have to learn all these skills. If you don't, it's okay. People will still be there for you. But please try.

   • Embed this notice
     Håkan Geijer (hakan_geijer@kolektiva.social)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 17:31:36 JST Håkan Geijer

     in reply to

     Perhaps it's who I'm following (and what does that say), but there are far far far more people talking about why you don't need a gun or other form of self-defense than there are who are advocating for it.

     Times are changing. We need to adapt with them.

   • Embed this notice
     (Flawed) Anarchist ⚑ (flawed@kolektiva.social)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 17:33:58 JST (Flawed) Anarchist ⚑

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer

     Yesterday, same thing went thru my head.

     Now that discount store Hitler won, most weapons (legal & physical) are in state goons hands, with fascists owning a good % of them, how would shit & fashlibs intend on protecting themselves.

     The shitlib cult built around antigun will force many more people unsafe unless they change their views about learning how to use guns.

   • Embed this notice
     Håkan Geijer (hakan_geijer@kolektiva.social)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 17:34:24 JST Håkan Geijer

     in reply to

     "I don't think I could enact violence."

     Just say that. Don't moralize about weapon ownership or downplay very real threats.

     "I'm not mentally well enough to have one."

     A some point the threat of violence from fascists will exceed the threat of self-harm. Only you know when that will be, but it may be sooner than you expect.

     "Guns are scary."

     The future is scary. It doesn't mean we won't have to face it.

   • Embed this notice
     John Brown Type Beats (johnbrowntypebeats@kolektiva.social)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 23:13:55 JST John Brown Type Beats

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer
     I think this is made clear by the fact that the people you're talking about hardly ever advocate for IFAK or more involved first aid care and equipment either

     because they're starting from a place of negative emotions around violence happening they avoid the reality of how these things play out

     you won't hear them mention IFAKs hardly ever because that thought process skips past the emotional appeals to inaction

   • Embed this notice
     LisPi (lispi314@udongein.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:06:15 JST LisPi

     in reply to
     @hakan_geijer > Perhaps it's who I'm following (and what does that say)
     
     Probably. Pretty much everyone I follow is either talking about other things or actively encouraging ownership of such tools.
   • Embed this notice
     Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC (lordcaramac@discordian.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:09:40 JST Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer I think people not only need to learn how to defend themselves, but also how to attack. Learn how to make and handle explosives. Learn how to sabotage and destroy vehicles and infrastructure. Learn how to build traps. Learn how poisons works. Learn to build and pilot cheap disposable drones. Learn how to build a guerrilla army.

   • Embed this notice
     jack (jack@status.sexyferret.science)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:12:00 JST jack

     in reply to

     • jack
     @hakan_geijer wanna know how many IFAKs ive seen JBGCs carry? 0.
   • Embed this notice
     jack (jack@status.sexyferret.science)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:12:04 JST jack

     in reply to
     @hakan_geijer with friends like these (you) who needs cointelpro
   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:16:23 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer When gun discourse comes up I'm reminded of the attack on Hypercacher in '15, where one of the employees actually got hold of a gun, but couldn't use it and got murdered (I think the first reports said the safety was on).
     I'm not sure he'd lived if he'd had gun training, but I'm sure he'd had a better chance.

   • Embed this notice
     John Carlsen 🇺🇸🇳🇱🇪🇺 (johnlogic@sfba.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:18:01 JST John Carlsen 🇺🇸🇳🇱🇪🇺

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer

     Let's think of it not as "guns are scary" but "the unknown is scary".

     Over the years, I learned about guns and I now have advanced instructor certifications.

     I've also learned enough first aid and CPR to earn the same state certification that peace officers receive (for "load and go" via CCPOST). I refresh this training as often as practical.

     Politically I lean solidly left, and I'm glad to have the training.

     I think most people would find the world much less scary by learning how to handle and use guns safely, and by being able to keep someone alive long enough for an ambulance to arrive.

   • Embed this notice
     Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC (lordcaramac@discordian.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:28:47 JST Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC

     @hakan_geijer In that case, I will be a good distraction keeping the Polizei and Verfassungsschutz busy while distracting them from the people who are actually doing it.

   • Embed this notice
     FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:53:33 JST FinalOverdrive

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer Indeed. To one: yes todays soldiers are not reluctant draftees, they are eager volunteers. Thats the threat. Not a reason to not fight.

   • Embed this notice
     FinalOverdrive (finaloverdrive@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 02:56:27 JST FinalOverdrive

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer I argue staying armed and ever alert to the return of the menace will be key to staying free.

   • Embed this notice
     Mx Amber Alex (she/it) (amberage@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 20:12:35 JST Mx Amber Alex (she/it)

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer a gun is an investment. You need to put in ~100 hours at the range, which costs money and ammunition. You need to put in another 100 hours dry fire practice learning to draw and aim rapidly.

     Sadly, "people who really need a gun in the future" and "people who can afford all that time and money" has very little overlap. And "people who can afford a gun" and "people who will look away rather than intervene" is a fucking circle.

   • Embed this notice
     Mx Amber Alex (she/it) (amberage@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 21:57:25 JST Mx Amber Alex (she/it)

     in reply to

     @hakan_geijer and crucially, while "just shoot to scare them off" might work against opportunistic wannabe-bashers, it certainly won't work against neonazi militias who roll up with military-grade gear and 100s of hours of range training live fire doosmday larping under their belts. If your threat model is "Hank McRedneck who wants to punch me in a Walmart parking lot", sure, just flashing the gun might work. But that's not the only threat.

   • Embed this notice
     Mx Amber Alex (she/it) (amberage@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 21:57:26 JST Mx Amber Alex (she/it)

     @hakan_geijer a weapon the user is not familiar with is a danger to themself and everyone around them. Someone who can't draw reliably will have the gun wrestled from them.

     "Only aim if you're prepared to shoot" is the inviolate rule of firearm safety.

     And under stress, all that gets 10x harder. I've had the opportunity to fire a gun in a recreational, supervised setting a few years ago and I got the hang of it pretty quickly. Now last month, I nearly got robbed at night and had to leg it out of there and I barely managed to get my phone from the pocket with how badly my hands were shaking and my heart was racing.

     In dangerous situations, thinking is hard. Muscle memory is what saves lives.

     Sure, maybe make it 50/50 hours instead of 100/100 hours, but either way, it takes a substantial commitment of time and associated costs to become proficient enough with any weapon – knife, club, pepper spray, gun, martial arts – to reliably employ it under real self-defence conditions.

     I'm all for targets of fascism arming themselves to defend their lives and communities, but someone who shoots themself in the foot and then drops the gun or jams it doesn't save anything.

   • Embed this notice
     Bimbo (bigtittybimbo@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 23-Jan-2025 23:44:56 JST Bimbo

     in reply to

     If you follow me, and you're stuck in the US, please follow this advice.

     The most effective form of defence is the ability to perform absolute aggression. Learn this skill or be caught without it.