Nathaniel Gregory
Then I'll go to Claudia De la Cruz of the Party for #Socialism and #Liberation! Those are the only ones against #Genocide where as #KamalaHarris, who's a genocide enabler and allowed it under her party, and #DonaldTrump, who is a bumbling dumbass who says the quiet part out loud, are no different. #PSL
Video by @socialismforall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-SJwO3XYQ
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@Faithslayer202 @elan @howards @socialismforall
Claudia De la Cruz isn't going to become president. The reality is that either Harris or Trump will become president. Even if you're a socialist, if you don't want Trump to become president again, voting for Harris is literally the only option that will ensure that he doesn't.
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@holden @Faithslayer202 @elan @socialismforall @howards
I don't know how many more times I'm going to have to say this today. JILL STEIN IS NOT GOING TO BECOME PRESIDENT! EITHER TRUMP OR HARRIS WILL BECOME PRESIDENT. HARRIS IS CLOSER TO THE LEFT THAN TRUMP, SO A HARRIS PRESIDENCY WILL BE BETTER FOR LEFTISTS, EVEN IF ONLY A LITTLE BIT.
Holden Green
@Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social @Faithslayer202@mastodon.social @elan@publicsquare.global @howards@mastodon.sdf.org @socialismforall@ioc.exchange vote for Jill Stein. Harris is a cop. How much better is she really than Trump?
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Jill isn't going to do anything because she isn't going to become president. How can there be any millage for a candidate whom we already know is going to lose?
Holden Green
@Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social @Faithslayer202@mastodon.social @elan@publicsquare.global @socialismforall@ioc.exchange @howards@mastodon.sdf.org I see there being more milleage from voting for Jill rather than the democrat because the democrats just keep getting worse. Your vote matters to a lot of people who aren't just in the US I've read recently. But you can vote for Kamala especially if it suits your interests. I haven't said who I'm gonna vote for if I vote.
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Election day is tomorrow. Enough people aren't going to vote for Jill Stein in this election to intimidate anyone. Maybe in a future election, but not this one. Voting or Jill Stein isn't going to do anything helpful. It will only take away votes that could've gone to Harris and make it more likely for Trump to win, who is objectively worse than Harris.
Holden Green
@Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social because if you vote for Kamala just because she isn't a republican then you are telling the democrats they can do whatever they want and get away with it. if enough people vote for Jill then maybe at least the democrats will feel intimidated.
Democrats are also the enemy.
Nathaniel Gregory
I like how a self-proclaimed marxist, who has it on the front bio page, is literally proving to be anything but that.
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I haven't proven I'm notna Marxist. There's nothing in any Marxist literature that says, "If you pragmatically vote for a non-Marxist to give the Marxist movement in your country a tactical advantage, then you are no longer a Marxist." Marx, Engels, and Lenin all talk about how it's sometimes necessary to support non-Marxists to give the Marxist movement an advantage. You'd know that if you read anything from them.
Nathaniel Gregory
Pretty sure I've heard this and be debunked somewhere...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUnMxS-ps9Q
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When it comes to learning what Marx, Engels, and Lenin said regarding tactical alliances, I get my information from the actual books they wrote, not some YouTube video.
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@ChrisWere @Faithslayer202 @holden
The plan is for Marxist to continue doing what we're currently doing now: educating people on Marxism and organizing people into Marxist organizations, which will be easier with Harris as president who is more to the left than Trump.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom @Faithslayer202 @holden The issue is that Democrats know that this very debate is an effective sheep-dogging technique.
I get that alliances with liberals is necessary, but then what? Like seriously, what's the plan? And why does no-one every follow through on that part?
Or is the plan just to maintain a close race between liberal capitalists and crypto-fascists every four years? Cos I see a pattern emerging.
Just look at what happened to Cory Bush.
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@holden @ChrisWere @Faithslayer202
Do you think that I'm not aware of the fact that Democrats don't like Marxists?
Holden Green
@Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social @ChrisWere@toot.wales @Faithslayer202@mastodon.social from the perspectives of the democrats Marxists are the enemy
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@holden @ChrisWere @Faithslayer202
It is the easiest thing for leftists to do and will make leftists' efforts in organizing the working class easier for at least 4 more years, specifically if Harris wins over Trump.
Holden Green
@Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social @ChrisWere@toot.wales @Faithslayer202@mastodon.social why are we getting worked up about voting tho?
Nathaniel Gregory
@Radical_EgoCom @holden @ChrisWere
Like it was under Biden, right?
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@Faithslayer202 @holden @ChrisWere
It was easier than under Trump, yes. I never said that organizing will be easy under Harris, only that it would be >>EASIER<< under Harris than under Trump.
Nathaniel Gregory
@ChrisWere @Radical_EgoCom @holden
The point of allying with liberals is them shutting us out of every space, continue capitalism and play the good cop / bad cop crap by not defeating #Republicans.
Because that's when people can go back to sleep like under #Obama, same with #Biden and what will happen when & if #Harris is elected.
Nothing will change with Harris is elected.
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@Faithslayer202 @ChrisWere @holden
You're right. Nothing will change under Harris. Things will be exactly the same, more or less, but this would be more ideal than being under Trump, where things will change, but not in a positive way.
Nathaniel Gregory
@Radical_EgoCom @holden @ChrisWere
yet others will just go back to sleep, while under trump from 2016-2020 there was more mass mobilization then there was under Biden.
Cause again, everyone went to sleep.
Nathaniel Gregory
@Radical_EgoCom @ChrisWere @holden
You know, most from what I'm hearing of you is very radlib.
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@Faithslayer202 @holden @ChrisWere
Are you suggesting that Trump being president was and, if elected again, will be a good thing for leftists?
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@ChrisWere @Faithslayer202 @holden
I already answered the "And then what?" question.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom @Faithslayer202 @holden Obviously Harris is better than Trump, and all things considered, I actually quite like Harris.
The broader left (I don't care about the specific leftist groups just left unity) seemed to gain much more momentum under Trump than under Obama. Whether that'll happen again under another Trump? Tough to say.
My question always comes down to, "And then what?" because the bit after voting for the lesser of two evils never seems to come.
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@ChrisWere @Faithslayer202 @holden
I did answer you. Here's my answer again, even though I already told you this:
"The plan is for Marxist to continue doing what we're currently doing now: educating people on Marxism and organizing people into Marxist organizations, which will be easier with Harris as president who is more to the left than Trump."
And here's a link to when I originally answered your question: https://mastodon.social/@Radical_EgoCom/113427737517266651
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom @Faithslayer202 @holden Not really, but I don't think you could.
Nathaniel Gregory
@Radical_EgoCom @ChrisWere @holden
If only @socialismforall can interject on this part to give corrections on this delusional idea.
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@ChrisWere @Faithslayer202 @holden
You haven't proven these allegations, so the allegations are mute.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom @Faithslayer202 @holden I don't see how that 'answer' assuages anyone's concerns other than your own.
You're not beating the "Marxists would rather win an argument online, rather than actually fight for systemic change" allegations.
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@ChrisWere @Faithslayer202 @holden
I never said Marxist are "a formidable force in US politics," so I don't know where that came from.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom @Faithslayer202 @holden It's an expression, but never-mind.
Keep doing what you're doing, and I'm sure Marxists will continue to be a formidable force in US politics and not get shunted by AIpac money for standing against genocide.
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@ChrisWere @Faithslayer202 @holden
If you make accusations, you have to prove them.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom @Faithslayer202 @holden You're not really saying much of anything to be fair. You waffle a bit and pretend that's an answer.
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@ChrisWere @Faithslayer202 @holden
You said that I "waffle a bit and pretend that's an answer." That's an accusation, and it requires proof.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom @Faithslayer202 @holden Dude, I think you're misunderstanding a fair bit here. It's just a turn of phrase.
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That's not how proving a claim works. You provide evidence for your claim.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom You can work it out for yourself.
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You're not a very good debater or conversationalist.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom I was literally responding to your silly answer. Work it out from there. Grow up and stop being a debate-bro.
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If you want to get away from the conversation, then just get away from it. You aren't being held hostage here.
Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕
@Radical_EgoCom I've literally been trying to get away from this conversation for a while now. Take it easy.
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