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1. Embed this notice
   feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 24-Oct-2024 23:08:14 JST feld
   First we had the license wars, then we had the distro wars, now we're having the pedo wars
   
   
   guys why aren't more women in open source again? I forgot
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 24-Oct-2024 23:27:01 JST feld

     in reply to
     I'm just glad we have pillars in the BSD community like Dan Langille. Kind, thoughtful, respectful. Never seeking fame or attention. Doing the work the community needs. Holding things together. Staying positive. Never involved in drama.
     
     Most of the senior BSD folks fit this description.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 24-Oct-2024 23:38:14 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to
     @feld because fighting and dying in a war is traditionally man's duty, few women join the fight voluntarily.
     feld likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 00:09:28 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to
     @feld i wonder if BaSeD comunity gets as much drama as Fedi/Pleroma community. I also wonder if those pillars get respect they deserve
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 01:24:27 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged)
     @taylan
     
     > But there aren't any more women in the BSD community than the rest of the IT sector either, are there?
     
     I wasn't making that assertion, only commenting on the qualities of some of the senior-most leaders. It's a much smaller community and so I presume women are unlikely to find this community after being turned off by the behavior of those in the larger tech community who they'd first encounter
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     Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged) (taylan@fedi.feministwiki.org)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 01:24:28 JST Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged)

     in reply to
     @feld But there aren't any more women in the BSD community than the rest of the IT sector either, are there?
     
     I don't think the lack of women in IT can be attributed to any one cause, and I think the reasons go so deep that changes in IT communities themselves (rather than deeper changes in modern "western" culture) would only make a small difference. And that's in the ideal case, assuming those changes are actually executed well.
     
     When it comes to recent trends like Codes of Conduct and Cancel Culture and all that jazz, I think the execution has been a complete catastrophe, and probably does a lot more harm than good where inclusion and diversity are concerned. I wrote about that here: https://blogs.feministwiki.org/taylan/2023/08/26/free-software-and-the-new-sexism/
     
     Honestly, I was completely unsurprised to find out that Drew DeVault is into virtual child pornography. It's a perfect fit, in terms of the ideological background and the culture of cancel culture aficionados within nerdy spaces. It seems to be a culture overrun by men obsessed with sexuality and fetishes, and their "queer politics" has historic ties with pro-pedophilia philosophy, like when Michel Foucault (considered the "father of queer theory") campaigned for the complete abolition of age of consent laws in France in the 70s.
     
     They love disregarding taboos and normalizing things that would previously be considered sexually deviant. (Furries, BDSM, ABDL, and so on, which they all liken to homosexuality, which is absurd because being gay is not a fetish. The way they think is actually homophobic in that sense.) Ironically, Stallman's "offensive" views seem based on the same mentality as well: "All the sexual taboos are just due to narrow-mindedness." But when it's an Old White Man who's saying it, they suddenly make a 180 and become puritans. I think they really just want to bring down "authority figures" for the sake of bringing down authority figures. Gives them a kick or something.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 01:28:43 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged)
     @taylan
     
     > I don't think the lack of women in IT can be attributed to any one cause
     
     Men. This is well documented. Women were the majority of the IT community (women *were* :airquote: computers :airquote: and later the first programmers) until men figured out that it wasn't a waste of a career and basically took it over and started excluding women. I'd need to go dig up the documentation on this but I believe it started happening in the late 70s / early 80s.
     
     The book / movie "Hidden Figures" covers some of the earliest examples of this where the women behind the moon landing did all the work but the men took all the credit.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:01:39 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt what, the Russians?
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:01:40 JST Phantasm

     in reply to
     @feld Pedo wars is old news, now we have Linux kernel drama.
   • Embed this notice
     Lina Inver?e (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:05:04 JST Lina Inver?e

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt @feld i bet the real reasoning was "how dare you tolerate russians when every russian person is literally hitler" and they just made some shit up to avoid sounding like they bend the knee to anyone
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:05:05 JST Phantasm

     in reply to
     @feld Yeah, both Greg and Linus refused to explain the reasoning behind it.
   • Embed this notice
     Lina Inver?e (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:06:22 JST Lina Inver?e

     in reply to

     • Lina Inver?e
     • Phantasm
     @phnt @feld linus wasn't even alive during the winter wars and i seriously doubt any of his family was affected by it considering that he's at least actually part swedish, it wasn't world war 2 where the death tolls for actual participants was in the tens of millions
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:12:08 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt The FreeBSD project was required to remove Iranian devs in the past due to sanctions. I think they're back all back now as the specific sanction rules with Iran changed? idk
     
     I actually mentored one (mmokhi!) around 2016-2017 and that was... potentially illegal. I did not consult a lawyer. :sweatdrop:
     
     I ran into him at FOSDEM and have a photo of myself with him which was an amazing coincidence. I consider it to be my most incriminating photographic evidence lol
     
     
     It's probably something like that. I haven't been paying attention but it wouldn't surprise me if the Russian devs have been suspended from the FreeBSD project too. I'm sure the Foundation's lawyers are watching as they give advice on these things to project the devs. (the Foundation is, thankfully, separate from the project itself)
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:18:56 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt remember, Linux kernel has IPSEC since ~2.6 and KTLS now. Crypto is classified as a munition in much of the West (USA, UK for sure. Probably EU).
     
     So kernel devs in the West are at risk of prosecution and prison for working with anyone from any sanctioned country on these things, let alone if they get caught transferring the files directly to them.
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:24:28 JST Phantasm

     in reply to
     @feld I also think it's because of some sanctions. The logical question after that would be "Why now and not 2 years ago?"
     And because Linus and likely Greg were advised to not talk about it by lawyers, it's also possible that LF sponsors just wanted them gone.
     
     The fact they removed some Russian maintainers isn't really the problem at least for me. It's the behavior after they've done it. None of the maintainers were moved to the credits file. They were just deleted.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Oct-2024 02:24:28 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt
     
     > None of the maintainers were moved to the credits file. They were just deleted.
     
     oh that's weird. I wonder what that's about