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   ⛈️ Information ⛈️ (elucidating@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:06:09 JST ⛈️ Information ⛈️

   Quick reminder as you see the news float by today: most 3d printers tend to use specific non-industrial plastics made from agricultural byproducts. These have entirely different characteristics than the industrial plastics you see.

   Some 3d printing is done with other plastics, and you should try to avoid buying products made with PET or PETG, ASA, and ABS. These materials are not substantially better than PLA for non-industrial use (e.g., their glass transition is higher but not much).

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     ⛈️ Information ⛈️ (elucidating@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:06:08 JST ⛈️ Information ⛈️

     in reply to

     There are plastics that do not induce demand for oil, can break down in the environment, and have higher glass transition temperatures. But the demand for them is too low, and so they never leave the lab.

     We can change that by demanding which plastics are used and rejecting the idea that recycling is a valid solution to the problem.

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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:06:08 JST feld

     in reply to
     @Elucidating
     
     > can break down in the environment
     
     Highly skeptical. You mean the types that make nanoplastics instead of microplastics? Can you cite an example?
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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:43:58 JST feld

     in reply to

     • feld
     @Elucidating I'd be willing to be that PLA plastics are *worse* for the environment because it gets brittle over time and has lower thermal stability than ABS
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     ⛈️ Information ⛈️ (elucidating@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:44:23 JST ⛈️ Information ⛈️

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld yes it can, will post some links later. Theres some good novel data here.

     PLA is best processed in industrial composting.

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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:44:23 JST feld

     in reply to
     @Elucidating you should read my linked paper first because I provided a citation that says it does *NOT* break down in the environment
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     ⛈️ Information ⛈️ (elucidating@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:46:16 JST ⛈️ Information ⛈️

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld But ultimately I don't think the microplastic problem is nearly so pressing as the oil demand induction problem. So I won't address there too deeply

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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:46:16 JST feld

     in reply to
     @Elucidating but we don't make oil to make plastics; plastics are an almost completely free byproduct of our existing oil production. It would otherwise be waste.
     
     Reducing oil production will probably not meaningfully impact our access to plastics.
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     ⛈️ Information ⛈️ (elucidating@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:48:07 JST ⛈️ Information ⛈️

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld No. That's ridiculous. What the actual fuck are you talking about?

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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:48:07 JST feld

     in reply to
     @Elucidating it more easily breaks down to become microplastics and nanoplastics. The more durable a plastic is the better it is for the environment long term
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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2024 04:57:15 JST feld

     in reply to
     @Elucidating maybe you should learn about how plastics are actually made before getting on the train of PLA because "no oil". We don't make oil to make plastics.
     
     > Although crude oil is a source of raw material (feedstock) for making plastics, it is not the major source of feedstock for plastics production in the United States. Plastics are produced from natural gas, feedstocks derived from natural gas processing, and feedstocks derived from crude oil refining.
     
     It is a free *byproduct* of refining that would otherwise have to be dealt with as industrial waste, but instead they figured out how to make it into plastic and sell it to us.
     
     https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=34&t=6
     
     
     There is never going to be a plastic that is safe for the environment.