Conversation

Notices

Embed this notice
infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:46:54 JST infinite love ⴳ
@thisismissem @pfefferle @hongminhee @julian @renchap @mike @michael hot take, but mastodon should be able to convert *anything* into a status "simply" by taking name/summary/content if present. https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#h-text-representations
In conversation about 2 months ago from mastodon.social permalink
Attachments
1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: www.w3.org
  
  Activity Streams 2.0
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:46:52 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap
  i think this is on the user/client to not publish/deliver every single scrobble to all followers. mastodon should still be able to render arbitrary activities if there is a text repr of them.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:46:52 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  @trwnh @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap I think publishing every scrobble to my followers is how I expect federated last.fm to work. It's on recipients to hide these things
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  Attachments
  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: www.last.fm
    
    Last.fm | Play music, find songs, and discover artists
    
    The world's largest online music service. Listen online, find out more about your favourite artists, and get music recommendations, only at Last.fm
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:46:53 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  @trwnh @thisismissem @pfefferle @hongminhee @julian @renchap @mike @michael but one thing I'd note: I think objects should always degrade gracefully into something note like, but that's not the case for activities
  
  Imagine I used a federated last.fm like application. If Mastodon converted as:Listen to a note, my followers would probably get pissed off about the "Now listening to: X" statuses every 2 minutes
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  Attachments
  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: www.last.fm
    
    Last.fm | Play music, find songs, and discover artists
    
    The world's largest online music service. Listen online, find out more about your favourite artists, and get music recommendations, only at Last.fm
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:47:14 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap
  This is why we need to allow people to specifically follow certain Collections which are exposed as streams. It’s also why we need to allow people to send activities to arbitrary audiences which might not include all followers.
  If a relay is set up for the purpose of aggregating Listen activities and you follow it, that’s on you. You asked for it.
  Create is the exception, not the rule
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:47:14 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  
  @trwnh @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap You're right that create is the exception: it's just one of two activities that you actually want to directly see in a microblogging context
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:47:15 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap
  this is like saying “i’m going to email every scrobble to my entire contact address-book and it’s their job to filter out such emails”
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:47:15 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  @trwnh @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap we don't really have a way of knowing what activities our followers are interested. In fact in the general case that's impossible; if I started using a music suggestion system based upon my friends listening habits today, I'd like to be able to use their historic listening data that they have been broadcasting to seed it.
  
  Alternatively, consider that I decide to make my listening history public and it hits a relay. My as:Listen activities are going to absolutely carpet bomb the federated timeline.
  
  Aside from the Annointed Two (Create, Announce) we really need to treat most activities as ephemeral and largely unimportant
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:48:11 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  @trwnh @hongminhee @julian @michael @mike @pfefferle @renchap @thisismissem I think our fundamental disagreement here is that I think activities shouldn't have content; it really opens many cans of worms
  
  AS1 had a much more robust activity/object distinction and TBH I'm still kinda upset at how much AS2 muddled every type of object together into sludge
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  
  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:48:12 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap
  Ironically in a micro/blogging context, the Create is mostly not interesting, it’s just a wrapper for the inner object which is the real “post”. Although, this doesn’t have to be the case — the Create might have metadata of its own that is interesting. Or you might want to preserve the Create for the consistency guarantee that everything is a stream of specifically Activities.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 02:48:12 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  @trwnh @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap therein lies the point - activities mostly *aren't* interesting. Create and Announce are interesting not in and of themselves but because of what they carry.
  
  Things just work much better in many ways if activities can be thought of as largely ephemeral.
  
  If the podcast listen is important enough that it's worthwhile keeping around in my feed - say, it has commentary or something like that - then perhaps it's better framed as commentary, not as a pure listen
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:18:29 JST Evan Prodromou
  in reply to
  @trwnh @thisismissem @pfefferle @hongminhee @julian @renchap @mike @michael icon, image can help too.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:24:55 JST Evan Prodromou
  in reply to
  @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @trwnh @michael @renchap In pump.io, we divided the inbox stream between "major" (new content, new shares) which is shown in a home timeline interface and "minor" (everything else) streams which are shown like notifications. Your scrobbles should be notifications and should be silenceable by the recipient.
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  Attachments
  1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
    
    pump.io
- Embed this notice
  Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:44 JST Evan Prodromou
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  - Erin 💽✨
  @trwnh @erincandescent @darius neat! The https://github.com/evanp/bots-rodeo/ platform is supposed to do just that.
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  Attachments
  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: opengraph.githubassets.com
    
    GitHub - evanp/bots-rodeo: An ActivityPub server-side bot framework
    
    An ActivityPub server-side bot framework. Contribute to evanp/bots-rodeo development by creating an account on GitHub.
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:45 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  - Erin 💽✨
  @erincandescent @darius if the actor represents me, then it is "my" inbox.
  the correct solution imo is to spin up more bespoke actors. i'd really like to build upon the concept of "programmable actors", i.e., actors that are automated to act a certain way with activities they receive in their inbox. for example, a Relay could be defined as a programmable actor that Announces the object of any Create it receives, or Announces any activity it receives, or whatever. and it should be a JSON-LD type
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:46 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  - Erin 💽✨
  @erincandescent @darius i think this could be solved by declaring specific endpoints for these things. no reason it should ever reach my inbox unless it's meant for my attention.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:46 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  @trwnh @darius I guess that's where I think your inbox is your actors inbox but not necessarily "your" inbox
  
  Things like Update and Delete activities aren't really for your attention; they're just for endpoint synchronisation
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:48 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  - Erin 💽✨
  @erincandescent @darius I heavily dislike the firehose model and would be terrified if my email inbox submitted to the same philosophy.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:48 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  @trwnh @darius I actually think this demonstrates a fundamental flaw in the email model
  
  There are times you want to be able to do endpoint to endpoint but potentially automatic message exchanges, and email doesn't really have a mechanism for doing this
  
  The straightforward example is my client noticing your S/MIME or GPG key is expiring and asking if there's a new one
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:49 JST infinite love ⴳ
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  - Erin 💽✨
  @darius @erincandescent It’s all just email subscriptions in my head, lol. Like in Github you can choose to be notified of comments, forks, etc. as you please. If LastFM added support for email notifications any time a friend scrobbled anything, and you subbed to that, well… hey, it’s your inbox, right?
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Erin 💽✨ (erincandescent@akko.erincandescent.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:49 JST Erin 💽✨
  in reply to
  - Darius Kazemi
  @trwnh @darius I think personally I lean towards a pure firehose model. Send me everything you got and let my clients pull out the data they're interested in
  
  In part because we're unlikely to ever agree on one exact axis of filtering
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
- Embed this notice
  Darius Kazemi (darius@friend.camp)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 03:30:50 JST Darius Kazemi
  in reply to
  - Erin 💽✨
  @trwnh @erincandescent fwiw I'm 100% on board for following Collections exposed as streams. It seems to me the reasonable solution to the as:Listen-spamming issue here. If you subscribed explicitly to get as:Listen then it is completely reasonable to expect your client to know how to handle it in a way that is not annoying to the end user
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink

Public

Conversation

Notices

Feeds