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   David Chisnall (david_chisnall@infosec.exchange)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:46:47 JST David Chisnall

   Any #Rust folks giving up on Linux:

   #FreeBSD has no current plan for Rust, but we want one! We want experienced Rust people to tell us how it should work. We’re interested in being able to add Rust in both userspace and the kernel, but we need a way of using Rust that works with multi-year support cycles (we need to be able to easily merge security fixes in trunk back to a branch that was originally made four years ago).

   Personally, I’d love to see a new service management framework for FreeBSD written in Rust + Lua.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:52:13 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Matt Campbell
     • 💞 eva 💞
     • Doerk
     @david_chisnall @doerk @winterschon @matt we need a supervisor, but it doesn't need to eat DNS, NTP, automounter, and other things like systemd has.
     
     Services should be started under a new JID so they act like cgroups. I've toyed with this and it can be retrofitted into /etc/rc much like how we allow us to wrap services with things like protect(1) / sshd_oomprotect="YES" style declaration but we'll want more control and doing this in shell is not fun. And if this lands we'll also want to tag the jails with some kind of metadata so they do not show up by default under "jls" output so it's more obvious which jails are real jails you created and which are magical jails that exist for services
   • Embed this notice
     David Chisnall (david_chisnall@infosec.exchange)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:52:14 JST David Chisnall

     in reply to

     • Matt Campbell
     • 💞 eva 💞
     • Doerk

     @doerk @winterschon @matt I don’t think anyone is suggesting importing systemd into FreeBSD, but I don’t know who would complain about services consuming no RAM when not in use.

   • Embed this notice
     Doerk (doerk@nrw.social)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:52:15 JST Doerk

     in reply to

     • Matt Campbell
     • 💞 eva 💞

     @david_chisnall @winterschon @matt I hoped it would be possible to avoid systemd in FreeBSD. I am so happy not being bothered by systemd, pulseAudio, pipewire etc. at FreeBSD. It’s sad if we had to carry these things into FreeBSD for compatibility reasons…

   • Embed this notice
     David Chisnall (david_chisnall@infosec.exchange)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:52:16 JST David Chisnall

     in reply to

     • Matt Campbell
     • 💞 eva 💞

     @winterschon @matt An increasing number of things depend on the systemd socket activation protocol. It’s going to become important fairly soon that we have support for it in the service management system.

   • Embed this notice
     David Chisnall (david_chisnall@infosec.exchange)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:52:18 JST David Chisnall

     in reply to

     • Matt Campbell

     @matt Low level things (wrapping pdfork, sockets, and so on) in Rust, most of the logic (e.g. systemd-compatible socket activation) in Lua.

   • Embed this notice
     💞 eva 💞 (winterschon@mastodon.bsd.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:52:18 JST 💞 eva 💞

     in reply to

     • Matt Campbell

     @david_chisnall @matt I'd suggest that you don't bother bringing anything to do with systemd into any conversation about service management improvements for FreeBSD.

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Campbell (matt@toot.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 03:52:19 JST Matt Campbell

     in reply to

     @david_chisnall How do you envision the framework being split between Rust and Lua? I mean, what would each language be used for?