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   Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 08:41:36 JST Nathan Schneider

   I notice there is often skepticism that we are capable of embracing democratic practices in online life.

   I think of how Alexis de Tocqueville was an aristocrat, trying to explain to his peers that democratic government could actually work.

   Deja vu.

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     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 08:54:59 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     Totally! The "what abouts" are great, because they mean people are starting to wrap their heads around this challenge.

     I just mean to point out how it feels like we are starting almost from scratch.

     Worth noting, though, that 1830s French aristocrats had seen a very nasty kind of democracy. They came by their skepticism honestly.

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     Robert W. Gehl (rwg@aoir.social)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 08:55:00 JST Robert W. Gehl

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr I've seen two of your talks, and there's always a bunch of 'what abouts', which is understandable.

     But what I haven't heard is, "ok, I think we can do it in this space -- here's what we might try".

     It won't surprise you when I say I filter what you say through the example of the fediverse. The fedi does have the 'implicit feudalism' baggage but the problem is not insurmountable.

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     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 08:56:29 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     To your point, it might be useful for presentations to go into more detail about cases so people can see these ideas working in practice, and then apply those experiences to their own contexts.

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     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 09:37:25 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Robert W. Gehl

     @rwg To me that is a big part of the hope—that through these tools we can learn to self-govern without relying on enforcement by violence.

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     Robert W. Gehl (rwg@aoir.social)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 09:37:26 JST Robert W. Gehl

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr sure, but we're not talking about systems in which people get their heads chopped off... I hope

     The limit to the feudalism metaphor is that these things aren't states, and there are no armies or police...