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   Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:14 JST Alexandre Oliva

   in reply to

   • normy foxyoreos
   my "assuming good intent" theory about this is that there are some very intolerant cults out there who go out of their way to harass maintainers and projects that display sympathy towards the targets of the cults' hatred. they instill fear, and well-meaning maintainers without the energy to stand up to them give in to stay out of trouble, in the same way some people give in to the mafia. this used to be a pragmatic if unsolidary position to take, for as long as there was only one such violent cult in town. now that there are multiple opposing groups that threaten detractors with similar kinds of violence, there's no pragmatic way to avoid attracting hatred and violence any more. it sucks to be ruled by fear either way.
   • Embed this notice
     normy foxyoreos (foxyoreos@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:16 JST normy foxyoreos

     in reply to

     • tyil
     • Louis

     @tyil @louis there's a lot to unpack here.

     > but you don't need to go around telling everyone "HEY BTW IM A GAY DOG" when you submit patches.

     The pull request I'm referencing didn't do that. It just asked for neutral language.

     Also... why not? Who hecking cares, is the code good? FOSS community patting itself on the back for being so agnostic about everything, until weird people show up in their communities, and then we're all IBM.

     I don't want to be IBM.

   • Embed this notice
     normy foxyoreos (foxyoreos@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:16 JST normy foxyoreos

     in reply to

     • tyil
     • Louis

     @tyil @louis There's this narrative of "just write good code, all we care about the code."

     Well, frankly, obviously not, or else devs wouldn't be fighting public battles about whether a readme uses the word "they". The existence of women and nonbinary people or otherkin is not some wild distraction that is going to derail a project. Heck, how much of the FOSS world is built by those groups?

     Why drag politics simple acknowledgement of gender? When did FOSS become so "proper"?

   • Embed this notice
     normy foxyoreos (foxyoreos@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:19 JST normy foxyoreos

     in reply to

     • Louis

     @louis respectfully, the pull request for the #ladybird project was not asking devs to be "for" anything, it was asking them to use neutral language in public-facing documentation for contributors. It's frustrating that being upset about an accusation that one's *existence* is political is equated to being intolerant or caring too much about ideology or being purist.

     We're asking not to be excluded. We want to feel like we are welcome to contribute.

   • Embed this notice
     normy foxyoreos (foxyoreos@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:19 JST normy foxyoreos

     in reply to

     • Louis

     @louis It's so backwards.

     We're asking the project lead to care less about ideology. To just have documentation that says "we don't care who you are, you're welcome here, we don't assume every user is a man." And that request is apparently political.

     What is more corporate than needing to put on a public face and hide your identity in order to write software?

   • Embed this notice
     normy foxyoreos (foxyoreos@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:19 JST normy foxyoreos

     in reply to

     • Louis

     @louis what's cool about FOSS is that it's not sterile. It's messy and inclusive and multi-cultural and I can submit patches even if I'm a weird gay dog on the Internet.

     If I wanted some sterile, completely apolitical, "is your identity 'appropriate'" stance, I'd go write proprietary software for Oracle. But we're better than that, FOSS is for everyone, not just suites.

   • Embed this notice
     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:19 JST tyil

     in reply to

     • Louis
     • normy foxyoreos

     @foxyoreos@mastodon.social @louis@emacs.ch It's messy and inclusive and multi-cultural and I can submit patches even if I'm a weird gay dog on the Internet.This is what I like about FOSS too, but you don't need to go around telling everyone "HEY BTW IM A GAY DOG" when you submit patches. That is what happens, and I can definitely understand the irritation this creates with maintainers. Especially if a maintainer rejects a patch because it is simply not good, and the submitter then goes on to their personal shoutbox to complain it must have been rejected for made-up personal reasons rather than just focussing on the code.
     
     Like that patch stating the README contains white supremacy? Why is that needed? What are you (not you personally) trying to solve, and why do it with such a loaded statement? If you have code to improve #Ladybird, just submit it. If the devs don't feel like it improves the browser, they won't accept it. If you feel it is required for the browser to improve, fork it and show them. Heck, if you're running a good distro you can just apply your own patches to it when you install it, and always have the software be just the way you want it to be.

   • Embed this notice
     Louis (louis@emacs.ch)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 18:30:21 JST Louis

     It breaks my heart 💔 to see the way the Fediverse is discussing the issues arising from some FOSS projects like #Hyprland, #NixOS, and now the #Ladybird project. The divisiveness and lack of empathy in these discussions is truly sickening.

     Our enemies are not individuals who spend their entire free time to contribute to FOSS and make mistakes along the way, but corporations and unhinged capitalism that take away our freedoms.

     Let's resist the urge to condemn entire projects based on the actions or decisions of individual contributors. It's counterproductive. The beauty of this space is that we have the opportunity to engage in factual, nuanced, and compassionate discussions about these challenges. There's room for diverse perspectives and healthy debate here.

     Isn't that what should set us apart from the toxicity and polarization found on platforms like X/Twitter? We're better than that.

     The world is not binary. Just because someone isn't pro-something doesn't mean they're anti-something. And not being interested in a particular topic, how important it might be, doesn't make someone subject to be "purged". Life is complex and multifaceted, and we all have our own priorities and experiences that shape our views.

     "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7) This verse serves as a guiding principle for me, and I believe it should be a cornerstone of any progressive community.

     #FOSS #Fediverse