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   Walkaway Friendly Localist 🌿 (woodbark@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Jun-2024 17:51:23 JST Walkaway Friendly Localist 🌿

   Most of what I found about the circular economy appears to be end consumer facing romanticism that is not well informed by how production and re-use on scale actually happens. And I am missing a big amount of industrial and infrastructure perspectives. I.e. how to reuse big specialised maschines or re-use already existing canals. Another part is polluted industrial sides. I have the impression that the circular economy thinkers do not tackle this problem at all...

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     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jun-2024 04:14:55 JST simsa03

     in reply to
     Thank you!
     
     The "end consumer facing romaticism" of "circular economy" is pretty much the localized small-scale romanticism of E.F. Schumacher, Whole Earth Catalog, (the early) Stewart Brand, Amory B. Lovins, and many more. It not only doesn't scale; it presupposes for its working the economies and #infrastructure it wants to abolish to run at full capacity. As Ecotopia small town-fantasies are more or less the only conceptional framework 50 years of hippie and counterculture tinkering has managed to come up with, it should be clear by now that these conceptions have been a lifestyle fad exactly because they don't contribute anything meaningful to the solution or at least management of complex crises and the problem of recalcitrance and tenacity of infrastructures and economies. The best ecologically minded politicians seem to have come up with are suggestions that don't get beyond the idea of Ecotopia writ large. And this cannot work.
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     Walkaway Friendly Localist 🌿 (woodbark@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jun-2024 04:25:03 JST Walkaway Friendly Localist 🌿

     in reply to

     • simsa03

     @simsa03 I would disagree on a few things. First, the proponents are not necessarily the practitioners. I.e. Ikea is currently working on bending linear supply chains into more circular ones. And from 5 year ago to today there was a lot of progress in their effort. BUT: this is one example and I find already whole heads in this soup. This has rarely anything to do with Brand, Schumacher or Lovins, the person pointed at idea-influence is MacArthur and her closed-circle-survival experience.

     Where I agree is, that this is nearly totally facing end consumer and this is not sufficient (even when employing industrial sides to make that partially happening). At infrastructure retrofit, supply chain management and pollution I make my works/doesnt work marking. Policy is btw. not lacking behind because of small-thinking, it is currently lacking behind because funding and moving forward is frozen until its clear how big the fallout of the orange one will be in November. Noone wants to move too much into this uncertainty since at least early last year.

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     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jun-2024 04:47:41 JST simsa03

     in reply to
     I guess we would have to debate a lot about whether MacArthur is or is not in the ideological and concptional lineage of the people I mentioned. Right now I don't see meaningful differences, at most a difference in scale and the use of shiny new tools.
     
     " I make my works/doesnt work marking. " I don't understand this part of the sentence.
     
     With regard to politics I disagree. To me politics on whatever scale doesn't wait for the Nov 6 elections in one coubntry, esp. when the current rubber barons of that country already declared they don't care which old man sits in the WH come 2025. Rather, slowness and immobility is a feature of compexity, of the necessary slowness of democratic procedures and deliberations, and the problem that slowness of the deicion finding (which we prefer for certain moral and plitical reasons) cannot catch-up with the speed of innovations and market penetration, which most often leads to a counterforce and new situations rather than solutions.