Right now alt text and "filename" are intertwined and i indend on separating them but i'm not very good at backend/elixir so it's gonna take a while until i find the courage to do so or someone else to do it for me.
@alexandria@reinhilde i used a screenreader and it's complete and utterly ass, however technology evolves and improves. And for biggest part it's the screenreaders that should improve because people will keep on doing wack shit.
@alexandria@reinhilde blind people can just ASK. Your 𝕔𝕠𝕠𝕝 𝕦𝕟𝕚𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕖 "𝕗𝕠𝕣𝕞𝕒𝕥𝕥𝕚𝕟𝕘", ASCII art and "sprite text emoji" do far worse than images without alt text or with wrong alt text. And we try to support accessibility at UI level and even pleroma themes have WCAG contrast rating support/display as well as automatic text contrast support, a thing that nobody really does.
So please, without further interruption, gouge your eyes out so that you can know and tell what it's like to use technology while visually impaired instead of whiteknighting and attempting to guilt-trip people who care.
@hj@reinhilde like the subtext here is that you're so into the Aesthetic of Computer that you're deliberately being a shithead to blind people, who i guess should just not interact with anything you post (which, i mean, now that i think about it, is a win-win given your attitude here).
@alexandria@reinhilde point is - people will keep on doing that, and they won't stop. You can't force literally everyone in the world from doing that. You can however improve screenreaders to be able to handle that sort of content and companies are working on that. For fucks sake i was working for big tech and we had actual blind person try to use our own product with a screenreader. And it's ass, and we had some image recognition software to help with that but it wasn't production ready.
@hj@reinhilde I literally have used the technology while unable to see (it sucks), and I have never "cool unicode formatting", "ascii art" or "sprite text emoji" precisely because they are ass in a screenreader lmfao
@a1ba@reinhilde@alexandria there's so much disability we can account for. What if someone is blind, deaf, mute, quadruple amputee, autistic, with dwarfism syndrome and down syndrome? "Can you stop being a shithead to blind, deaf, mute, quadruple amputee, autistic, with dwarfism syndrome and down syndrome it's not difficult to be a considerate human being"
@alexandria@a1ba@reinhilde once again, it's a current issue and an issue of software that can be fixed. Things are not perfect, and it's just a temporary compromise.
And y'all haters are deadset on making sure that temporary compromise is a permanent one.
@a1ba@reinhilde@hj they kind of shouldn't have to ask because thats putting the onus on the disabled person to ask for every image on their feed. if i did that my posts would be nothing but "can u please tell me what this joke is thank u".
i dont think disabled people should have to ask before entering an online space and i dont think disabled people should have to ask before being able to be included in a joke or a discussion
@hj@reinhilde@alexandria while it's a generic problem, having a media description is still good. For example, having a slow internet connection. Which is true for most mobile devices.
I know that having SHA256 filenames as alt text is bad, but currently it's either that or nothing, it will be garbage either way. The fundamental problem is that "filename" and "alt text" is historically intertwined (essentially it was just "filename" and then it was reused as "alt text" and eventually "filename" part of it got dropped (but kept as an option for freaks like me))
It can be separated but the only person interested in doing that (me) is a noob in backend development. For for now, just from inertia and stubborness it's the way it is. Y'all haters give me motivation to try my luck again in backend dev to make it better. Problem is - I'm extremely busy (and not feeling great) at this moment, so trying to re-learn elixir and backend dev is at the end of my priorities.
@alexandria@reinhilde@a1ba do you know how autism affects a person? Do you know the sheer force of habit? I want a **proper** solution. I know I can't change habits easily, and trying to appeal to deliberately hostile group of people (y'all) will have a negative impact on my already damaged-beyond-repair mental health.
@hj@reinhilde@a1ba when someone asked you to provide alt text on your images you sent back a picture of a man with a gun aimed at his head with non-relevant alt-text, you also have repeatedly doubled down on your position, so it is difficult to see how you could possibly support it
@alexandria@reinhilde@a1ba don't worry, we have one dev who is extremely friendly towards blind people on fediverse and I'm grateful she's on our team - @tusooa
@hj@reinhilde@a1ba Like my takeaway from this thread is that one of the pleroma developers is incredibly hostile to blind people existing on the fediverse
@a1ba@reinhilde@alexandria >Also, wtf are you talking about. For me, Pleroma never appended the filenames to media descriptions.
That was the way it was in 2018 and that's the way i set it up because i need my le funny filenames. Sorry to all negatively affected by it, I'm working on improving it.
@hj@reinhilde@alexandria it's like saying CWs are subjects, and stubbornly ignore their existence and automatically open them (and complain when the post has something unpleasant).
While they technically are subjects, like in email, there is now another meaning for them, and software should just adapt to it.
Also, wtf are you talking about. For me, Pleroma never appended the filenames to media descriptions. Maybe I changed something in the config, but I don't remember what.
@alexandria@reinhilde@a1ba i did not double down, or at least not intentionally. It takes me some time to actually "read the air" and how other people see my words and actions.
@hj@reinhilde@a1ba I have autism so please do not use that as an excuse for being an asshole
like, yes the issue would have been solved if you had said "wow, sorry, here it is" but you doubled down lmao. no i dont care what the field is named inside the backend, no i also don't care about the history of the field's existence, what I do care about, as a user, is whether or not an image is accessible to me or not.
i also dont care about future solutions because they are not here yet
@a1ba@reinhilde@alexandria@hj there are good non-technical reasons to resist one jerk changing the usage of something deliberately for the benefit of his software alone but I admit at a certain point it's a lost cause
1. "literally typing out most basic description of the image"
What constitutes for "most basic description of the image"? Would "an assortment of some sort of shapes" suffice? Or should I describe facial features of every character displayed?
Just typing out takes effort and time, while image might not even been encountered by a blind/visually impaired person at all. This goes against the "it's not difficult to be a considerate person" - providing image accurate description is damn difficult, and i know that from just tagging my images in my database.
2. "Now and is immediately accessible to everyone"
No, first of all, even if I add image descriptions folks like you will still complain that it's too short, too long, too detailed or not detailed enough, and therefore not accessible.
Second of all, I am just one person, go tell 10000 other people to do the same, have this exact conversation. I'm sure they will be as forbearing as I am.
@hj@reinhilde@a1ba like yeah, maybe image detection will get better! or, maybe it won't and we'll have another AI winter. banking on it and putting all the chips on something that is as-yet-nonexistent is setting up for failure, when an easy to implement solution (literally just typing out the most basic description of the image) exists now and is immediately accessible to everyone
> What constitutes for "most basic description of the image"? Would "an assortment of some sort of shapes" suffice? Or should I describe facial features of every character displayed?
literally anything is better than a sha256
> even if I add image descriptions folks like you will still complain that it's too short, too long, too detailed or not detailed enough, and therefore not accessible.
@a1ba@reinhilde@alexandria@hj those things are fine, it's the unilateral shortsighted repurposing of subject field that chaps my cheeks. the fediverse isn't just microblogging.
I'm sorry for re-litigating this for years, it's annoying even to me.
@Moon@reinhilde@alexandria@hj depends on adoption and how stupid it is IMHO. It varies, but I won't call media descriptions and content warnings stupid. After all, fedi isn't an email.
@alexandria@reinhilde@a1ba I do, and i've been here since 2017 or so, others (shitposter.club) have been from much earlier. I don't see YOU do the same, instead guilt-tripping other people into doing what YOU do. Subjects weren't a thing, scopes weren't a thing, groups were a thing. YOU came and set new rules and tell US to lurk more? .png
@alexandria@reinhilde@a1ba ok, mastodon user. But that also means your "lurk more" does not work either. Face it that we have cultural differences and stop pretending that we're in the same cultural soup.
@hj@reinhilde@a1ba pulling an "ive been here for years!" rank type deal does not work when I have also been here since around the same time, lmfao. do better, coward.
@hj@reinhilde@a1ba buddy I was on a pleroma instance in 2017. stop saying its cultural and just say you literally cannot be fucked to learn to do better as a person, that's ok.
Also me instance blocking you is an admission that you're a greasy little timewaster.
@a1ba@reinhilde@alexandria i don't think anything wrong with good things either, but I don't think everything is good (especially not scopes), but at the same time i don't want to let go of good old things they are trying to take away from me.
- i can't easily change my habits - because of socio-technological issues i'm ""abusing"" the description field for filenames until proper filenames or names and alt-text are implemented. I put it in quotes because it's only seen as abuse from outside, to me it's been like that since 2018 and i preserve this behavior because I like it. Inertia keeps me somewhat ignorant of it, but I indend on fixing it on technological side.
Small correction - The issue isn't that you didn't change the default and didn't implement something, the issue is that you plainly refuse to acknowledge that as an issue and your only arguments for that are arguments against specific implementation of that, and when people become mad such replies, you just think that you are now justified to being asshole to them.
Can you please explain what's your issue, @hj? You were told an issue with your post, and you didn't provide any reason except "that's default" despite you presumably being the one who can change that, and the only reason you didn't is [something about technical details of Mastodon using labels improperly and that becoming a de-facto standard in mastodon-compatible software] and [Alt text weren't a thing in 2017].
As of now, I only see that you were called an asshole for a reason, and your only response is to actually start acting like an asshole.
@a1ba@reinhilde@alexandria@hj that the person he was replying to was making the exact argument you are complaining about, but you skipped over them and complained about hj responding in kind.
@a1ba@reinhilde@alexandria@Moon the argument "lurk more" is essentially as video described "instead of jumping into discussion first look at how others behave".
It's like telling a native patrician roman citizen "when in rome do as romans do"
@Moon@reinhilde@alexandria@hj I don't see how it's the same. Well, I didn't watched the video but if the description is correct, it's still fine to me.