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  1. Embed this notice
    HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:27:22 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
    • specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
    • Οἰνεύς
    • Wikipedia
    • merc

    @specked

    #GeoPol #WarInGaza #Israel #UN

    (1/n)

    "...but also on the ground realities at the time, such as the #Jewish population's presence and the outcome of the #Arab-#Israeli War of 1948."

    I can agree with all the facts that you state here (with the whole post, in fact) as they coincide with my recollection of things I have read and heard in the past. Thank you, too, for the recap.

    However, just like President #Biden, I am...

    @wikipedia @marcelliotnet @Oeneus

    In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:27:22 JST from mastodon.social permalink
    • Embed this notice
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:31:33 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
      in reply to
      • specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
      • Οἰνεύς
      • Wikipedia
      • merc

      @specked
      @wikipedia @marcelliotnet @Oeneus

      #GeoPol #WarInGaza #Israel #UN #Jewish #Arab #Israeli #Biden

      (2/n)

      ...a firm believer in the post-#WWII rules-based international system.*

      I strongly resent the 19th century notion that war is the last resort of politics.
      As #vonClausewitz stated in his epic book, #VomKriege:

      "Der Krieg ist eine bloße Fortsetzung der Politik mit anderen Mitteln.“ (Chapter 1, Sect. 24, 1832)

      [War is the mere continuation of politics with other means."]

      Ever...

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:31:33 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:40:00 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
      in reply to
      • specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
      • Οἰνεύς
      • Wikipedia
      • merc

      @specked @wikipedia @marcelliotnet @Oeneus

      (3/n)

      ...since the advent of the #OverkillCapacity, *humanity simply cannot afford this option.*

      Thus, a won war will not give the victor any legal or moral claim to a territory.

      #EthnicCleansings, e.g. by means of #MassDeportations of a population, e.g. of the #Crimean #Tartars**, and then phony #plebiscites years later, or causing a population to flee en masse from a war (e.g. through the #Russian invasion of...

      **
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:40:00 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: upload.wikimedia.org
        Deportation of the Crimean Tatars
        The deportation of the Crimean Tatars (Crimean Tatar: Qırımtatar halqınıñ sürgünligi, Cyrillic: Къырымтатар халкъынынъ сюргюнлиги) or the Sürgünlik ('exile') was the ethnic cleansing and the cultural genocide of at least 191,044 Crimean Tatars which was carried out by the Soviet authorities from 18 to 20 May 1944, supervised by Lavrentiy Beria, chief of Soviet state security and the secret police, and ordered by the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. Within those three days, the NKVD used cattle trains to deport the Crimean Tatars, mostly women, children, and the elderly, even Communist Party members and Red Army members, to the Uzbek SSR, several...
    • Embed this notice
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:48:46 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
      in reply to
      • specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
      • Οἰνεύς
      • Wikipedia
      • merc

      @specked @wikipedia @marcelliotnet @Oeneus

      (4/n)

      ...including the 2014 coup in #Crimea) *must never be a basis for any future legal claim. The same holds true for state-sponsered land-grabs of territory that is *not internationally recognized.*

      I can agree with your analysis with regard to the causes, and I, personally, even think resettlement of *all* ethnicities in the #MiddleEast will be necessary to create viable states and a longer lasting peace for all peoples involved, but...

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:48:46 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:49:42 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
      in reply to
      • specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
      • Οἰνεύς
      • Wikipedia
      • merc

      @specked @wikipedia @marcelliotnet @Oeneus
      (5/5)

      ...simply *not because a state had the better military and created these facts.*

      The erroneous "might makes right" concept, still espoused by the #Bush Admistration, as well as autocrats like #Putin and #Xi, would have desastrous consequences for the world order (e.g. #Ukraine, #SouthChinaSea, #Taiwan, etc.).

      *
      Excellent interview with #President #Biden by historian #HeatherCoxRichardson on #InternationalPolicy:

      https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/interview-with-president-biden-audio/id1730358737?i=1000644940683

      //

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 19:49:42 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 20:59:16 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
      in reply to

      @specked

      #GeoPol

      (1/n)

      "#History is written by the victors."

      Yes, and this is why the international community must form alliances that protect the vast majority of nations: they are not mighty.

      In fact, it is an old concept derived from #Aesop / #Aísōpos n the 7th-6th century BC: His fable of the Bundle of Sticks, also known as the Old Man and His Sons.

      https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589

      However, it is time to re-invent this concept for the 21st century: not...

      @Oeneus

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 20:59:16 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr: (specked@social.right.wtf)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 20:59:17 JST specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr: specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
      in reply to
      • Οἰνεύς

      @HistoPol @Oeneus History is written by the victors. While I also think that's terrible, that's the way it is. Every war Israel has fought has been defensive. Every country that has wanted peace with Israel has received peace.

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 20:59:17 JST permalink
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 repeated this.
    • Embed this notice
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 21:04:34 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
      in reply to
      • specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
      • Οἰνεύς

      @specked @Oeneus

      (2/n)

      ...religion nor race, or family ties must be the (sole) unifying factor for the #BundleOfSticks, but the joint belief in a better world with a rules-based order, where the may punish the aggressor, if possible by peaceful means (#LastResort theory.)

      https://www.thoughtco.com/aesops-fable-the-bundle-of-sticks-118589

      ...

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 21:04:34 JST permalink

      Attachments


    • Embed this notice
      HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (histopol@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 21:04:49 JST HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸  🏴 HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
      in reply to
      • specked :is: :uk: :usa: :pr:
      • Οἰνεύς

      @specked @Oeneus

      (3/3)

      ...PS:
      Is the fable only part of the bible* or also the Torah, I wonder?

      "#Ecclesiastes picked up the moral in his proverbs, 4:12 (King James Version)
      "And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken."

      //

      In conversation Tuesday, 13-Feb-2024 21:04:49 JST permalink

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