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   HeavenlyPossum (heavenlypossum@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:21 JST HeavenlyPossum

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   • shadowsonawall

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   If people were only prosocially egalitarian among their own families, humans would have gone extinct 300,000 years ago. We are obligate social animals, and humans have built countless societies in which members are—for quite self-serving reasons—cooperative and egalitarian.

   @passenger @RD4Anarchy @Radical_EgoCom @graphite

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     HeavenlyPossum (heavenlypossum@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:22 JST HeavenlyPossum

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     @passenger @RD4Anarchy @shadowsonawall @Radical_EgoCom @graphite

     Of course everyone is naturally selfish. Everyone is also naturally prosocial. Neither of these facts contradicts each other or predetermines a particular social outcome.

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     shadowsonawall@qoto.org's status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:22 JST shadowsonawall

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     @HeavenlyPossum @passenger @RD4Anarchy @Radical_EgoCom @graphite I totally agree: we are all both selfish and egalitarian. Egalitarian when it comes to "our family" (loosely defined), selfish when it comes to those outside it. The result of those pressures is well, history. And it's not particularly pretty :(

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     RD (rd4anarchy@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:23 JST RD

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     @shadowsonawall @Radical_EgoCom @graphite @passenger

     Why does there have to be *a system* that scales past neighbors?

     "Evil people" was your characterization, I don't usually think in those terms. But for sure there will be some assholes. I believe there would be far fewer assholes if we were liberated from capitalism, but there would still be some, sure.

     Anyway, I could point you to various techniques societies have used for millennia but I don't have the patience to listen to bad faith bullshit about me wanting us to go back to hunter-gatherer days.

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     shadowsonawall@qoto.org's status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:23 JST shadowsonawall

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     @RD4Anarchy @Radical_EgoCom @graphite @passenger I'm not trying to act in bad faith. I'm trying to help you understand the limits of what you are advocating for. We don't have to continue the discussion but if you do think about it further understand that evil isn't always about the environment/system people are in. There are a ton of people who are naturally selfish, plenty who naturally believe they are superior to others. That's a reality of our tribal biology and it has played out throughout history under every yet conceived economic system to one end: people crushing other people for their own benefit.

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     shadowsonawall@qoto.org's status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:24 JST shadowsonawall

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     @RD4Anarchy @Radical_EgoCom @graphite @passenger we agree that there are evil people? How do you handle them in a system that scales past neighbors?

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     RD (rd4anarchy@kolektiva.social)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:25 JST RD

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     @shadowsonawall @Radical_EgoCom @graphite @passenger

     State has never been about dealing with "evil people". State has always been a tool of exploitation and control by a ruling elite. Your question makes no sense.

     https://www.thecommoner.org.uk/the-state-our-ancient-enemy/

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     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:27 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

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     @shadowsonawall @graphite @passenger @RD4Anarchy
     It's not literally impossible. There are other means to deal with evil people without a state or centralized authority, like the method of using a decentralized organization.

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     shadowsonawall@qoto.org's status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:27 JST shadowsonawall

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     @Radical_EgoCom @graphite @passenger @RD4Anarchy oh? How would you deal with evil people without a state?

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     shadowsonawall@qoto.org's status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 04:57:29 JST shadowsonawall

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     @graphite @Radical_EgoCom @passenger @RD4Anarchy which is literally impossible in the face of evil people who actively want to exploit other people.