Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Boosty Collins (ieure@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 07:56:35 JST Boosty Collins

   lol, Scheme's function for partial application is called.. cut? what the hell. why

   • Embed this notice
     tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 07:56:34 JST tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     @ieure it's not even a function; it's a macro

   • Embed this notice
     tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 08:02:24 JST tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     @ieure personally I'd take "cut" over elisp's hilariously-verbose "apply-partially" but realistically, elisp is a lisp-2 so it's pretty rare to even bother with that shit anyway since it's so tedious to use higher-order functions there

     but yeah, it's real bad in both cases

   • Embed this notice
     Boosty Collins (ieure@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 08:02:25 JST Boosty Collins

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...

     @technomancy Right, it's a macro ("syntax"), not a function ("procedure"). It is nice to drop the argument somewhere else in the arglist than the end, but the name is the about the worst imaginable.

   • Embed this notice
     tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 09:22:41 JST tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     @ieure yeah, I haven't done anything in scheme proper, just racket, which feels a lot more cohesive than raw scheme

     I haven't used guile, but from what I've heard it's somehow got stack traces that are even worse than clojure's?

   • Embed this notice
     Boosty Collins (ieure@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 09:22:42 JST Boosty Collins

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...

     @technomancy I've never done anything substantial in Scheme before, not super loving it, honestly. Like you can tell they really tried to strip Common Lisp down and make it cleaner, then you find stuff like car and cdr held over.

     And stuff like call-with-port is IMO worse then CL's with-open-file.

     ...and that's before you get into the mess of "Oh, I need this thing time to figure out what random SRFI I have to use" and 98% of Guile code being in a module named "ice-9" because someone thought that was a cute name, once.

   • Embed this notice
     tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 09:50:33 JST tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     @ieure ohhhh I thought you meant the module system itself was called ice-9; having it in the *name* of unrelated modules is much much weirder

   • Embed this notice
     Boosty Collins (ieure@retro.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 09:50:35 JST Boosty Collins

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...

     @technomancy Yeah, Guile's stack traces and error messages are some of the worst. The probability of seeing a file you changed or have control over in a stack trace is about one in five. Most of them do not mention the code which caused the problem at all, instead having a mix of stuff from stdlib and "ice-9."

     There are a bajillion references to various "ice-9" modules because someone in 1998 thought it would be a good idea to name important parts of Guile after an oblique reference to a Kurt Vonnegut story, which, even if someone knew the reference, would absolutely not be able to intuit the rationale behind.

     I am not making this up. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2010-07/msg00046.html