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1. Embed this notice
   Jeffrey Lembeck (jefflembeck@fediverse.jefflembeck.com)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2024 12:29:03 JST Jeffrey Lembeck

   • Matthew Lyon

   @mattly isn’t… _everything_ paid for with wages?

   • Embed this notice
     zero (zero@woof.group)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2024 14:11:15 JST zero

     • Matthew Lyon

     @mattly it's because your purchase price from the grant is typically less than the market price. The difference is essentially a boon, extra income. Hence the tax treatment as income.

   • Embed this notice
     Sean Murthy (smurthys@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2024 15:13:40 JST Sean Murthy

     in reply to

     • Matthew Lyon
     • zero

     @zero Indeed, short-term gain would be taxed differently than long-term.

     It seems we agree the gains from any event after exercising are taxed as gains (short or long) and only the discount on market price at exercising is taxed as wages.

     So, I think the part of OP that says "gains from selling stock bought under an Employee Stock Purchase Plan count as wages” is not true, except by "coincidence".

     That said, I'll look into the details as time permits. But OP is prolly right. 🙏

     @mattly

   • Embed this notice
     zero (zero@woof.group)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2024 15:13:41 JST zero

     in reply to

     • Matthew Lyon
     • Sean Murthy

     @smurthys @mattly What you say is essentially true: one part is taxed as wages, and one part as capital gains (long or short).

     The complexity comes from where the dividing line is drawn - it depends on both the period of time from grant to exercise, and exercise to sell... I don't pretend to understand the rational for the several different cases.. but you can find decent references (and flowcharts!) on-line to help you wade through it.

   • Embed this notice
     Sean Murthy (smurthys@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2024 15:13:42 JST Sean Murthy

     in reply to

     • Matthew Lyon
     • zero

     @mattly I'm a bit confused. I can see why the difference between what you paid and the market price on the day the stock became yours is taxed as wages. However, the difference between that market price and the price you sold the shares at should be capital gains/loss, no?

     Unless you sold at your market price, possibily even the same day the shares became yours.

     It has been a while since I was in a similar situation. So, I don't really remember all the details.

     @zero

   • Embed this notice
     Sean Murthy (smurthys@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2024 15:17:36 JST Sean Murthy

     • Matthew Lyon
     • zero

     @mattly Thanks for sharing the numbers. Something to think about.

     @zero

   • Embed this notice
     John Hugg (hugg@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2024 21:33:28 JST John Hugg

     • Matthew Lyon

     @mattly it’s almost a loss if the company was trying to give you a 20% discount in lieu of wages, but you only realized 14% of that.

   • Embed this notice
     John Hugg (hugg@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jan-2024 05:58:51 JST John Hugg

     • Matthew Lyon

     @mattly Oh when you explain it this way it makes sense to me why the 2k are wages and I assume the 1.4k are gains.

     If you give them 8k and they give you 10k (in kind) that sounds taxable as wages.