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   Joe Cooper 💾 (swelljoe@mas.to)'s status on Thursday, 11-Jan-2024 22:26:24 JST Joe Cooper 💾

   in reply to

   And, it's also worth noting that defederating doesn't actually provide the "zero tolerance for Nazis" experience, anyway. Because of the way things propagate, entire conversations can happen around your posts without your instance being involved and without you ever seeing it. That's unintuitive, to put it mildly, and it's kind of an even more hostile implementation of the quote-tweet pile-on tactic used over on Twitter. The classic Polite Nazi infiltration tactic works here.

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     Joe Cooper 💾 (swelljoe@mas.to)'s status on Thursday, 11-Jan-2024 22:26:25 JST Joe Cooper 💾

     in reply to

     I want to curate what my followers see when they read my threads, which is not how things currently work. I can curate what I see, but I have no say over Nazis leveraging my threads as a platform. And, people with large follower counts are a very attractive target for Nazis on any platform that allows that kind of engagement farming...it's why they hate the platforms built explicitly for them: it doesn't provide a platform to spout their garbage opinions in the mentions of popular people.

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     Joe Cooper 💾 (swelljoe@mas.to)'s status on Thursday, 11-Jan-2024 22:26:25 JST Joe Cooper 💾

     in reply to

     The most valid argument for "keep everything the way it is and defed all the loosely moderated instances" is that the fediverse is best when it's lots of small servers, so everyone can choose their own adventure.

     But, the argument that trumps that is that it is gatekeeping bullshit. It's saying the fediverse should _only_ be for nerds and should remain small. My friends on Threads don't grok instances and federation. They'll never be "here" if here is only many small focused instances.

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     Joe Cooper 💾 (swelljoe@mas.to)'s status on Thursday, 11-Jan-2024 22:26:26 JST Joe Cooper 💾

     I've expressed few strong opinions about the #Threads issue, specifically, or the defederation issue more broadly, but I think the fact that there are very good arguments for either action is indicative of a systemic problem.

     The two positions (simplified):

     Anti-defed: "I want to see my friends posts, and I want them to see mine." I want that, too.

     Pro-defed: "I never want to see Nazi shit on my feed, and I don't want my followers to see Nazi shit on my threads." Yep, me too.

     Tokyo Outsider (337ppm) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Joe Cooper 💾 (swelljoe@mas.to)'s status on Thursday, 11-Jan-2024 22:26:26 JST Joe Cooper 💾

     in reply to

     Problem is, these two positions are currently incompatible. If you don't defed instances that are lax about moderation, you inevitably get Nazis in your feed and in your threads, and you can't control that! You can block them, but if they've responded to your threads, their posts will remain visible to others. You won't see it, but your friends will unless/until they block that person, too.

     Defed is a big hammer that smashes a lot of innocents on big instances. I have friends on Threads, too.

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     Joe Cooper 💾 (swelljoe@mas.to)'s status on Friday, 12-Jan-2024 01:35:20 JST Joe Cooper 💾

     • Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)

     @tokyo_0 "close friends" sure...but casual acquaintances I've made over the years on Twitter? I'm not too fussed about it and I'm on an instance that preemptively opted out of federating with Threads. But, I understand the problem people have with the situation.

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     molly in missouri (whatzaname@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 13-Jan-2024 19:57:39 JST molly in missouri

     in reply to

     @swelljoe i think, rewarding corporate asshats for promoting hate is a really bad idea. I think enabling passive cooperation with Nazis is evil.
     If people using destructive products refuse to stop, that doesn't mean i should encourage them to keep doing that.
     If my instance doesn't take an ongoing, active stance in preventing abuse by known malicious corporations, it's a shitty instance and I should find another who refuses to be complicit in abuse.
     #AuthorizedFetch
     #Fedipact