Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:28:05 JST Rich Felker

   I keep encountering ppl trying to use XMPP as a cautionary tale about Threads and it's just... so ahistorical. Yes Google and Facebook did a bait and switch with XMPP, but there was never any thriving network of interconnected XMPP servers they hooked into, stole users away from, abandoned, and left to die. The whole point of XMPP was a promise of being able to connect with Gmail users, and when that was broken, it became pointless.

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:28:04 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     Fedi vs Threads OTOH is like the internet vs AOL. It's where all the ppl in the know already are thriving, some eagar to bring a much larger body of users over to the modern world where you're not stuck with what one corporation wants you to see, others upset at the chaos and abuse those users will bring. Facebook has no hope of destroying this with a bait and switch. Nobody except overly loyal Facebook employees & other simps is moving ~to~ Threads...

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:41:37 JST feld

     in reply to
     @dalias XMPP federation has always been a failure, that's why iMessage, WhatsApp, etc refused to federate. The interop always sucked because the clients sucked and the XEPs suck
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:43:48 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     The lesson we can take away from XMPP, I think, is that yes corporations see federation as a big legal/compliance/spam/etc. liability, because it is, and they're only going to touch that if they see it as the only option. If they're even flirting with federation, it means we're winning. They know this is the future and they don't want to be left behind. But they will try to do everything their way, not ours.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:43:49 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     The threats Threads brings are (1) strongarming instances into lowering moderation standards, or applying new abusive moderation standards (like banning swers) to meet Facebook's commercial or regulatory needs, and (2) driving our communities apart with bickering and rage-defederation over stupid minutia in our differing approaches to dealing with Facebook's shit.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:46:11 JST feld

     in reply to
     @dalias it's a different flavor of suck and we have nice clients. Maybe everyone who can make a decent UX is just allergic to XML
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:46:12 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld TBF ActivityPub sucks too, but we have a critical mass of users and of ops engineers who did the hard work of figuring out how to run reliable instances despite the software and protocol being so suboptimal.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 06:04:12 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • lauren n. liberda

     @selfisekai It's a common narrative, but I've never had problems sending to big companies, only occasional small ISPs with BOFH mail admins.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     lauren n. liberda (selfisekai@social.hackerspace.pl)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 06:04:14 JST lauren n. liberda

     in reply to

     @dalias I think e-mail is a pretty good example. a major source of Microsoft's e-mail hosting usage in companies is because it comes with Office 365. now if you want to send an e-mail to a company, your choices are either a major provider that is on their allowlist, or being gaslit

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 07:15:27 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld Speaking of which, reminder: thank/tip/pay your instance operators as you're able to! Making the fedi work was/is an amazing feat!

     feld likes this.