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   Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 23:52:30 JST Glyn Moody

   ‘People will die in the streets’: Gaza dreads onset of winter as disease rises - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/10/people-will-die-in-the-streets-gaza-dreads-onset-of-winter-as-disease-rises important: situation in #gaza is already catastrophic, but it will get much, much worse once winter sets in. we could see >100,000 deaths unless #israel stops this slaughter

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     Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 23:52:15 JST Glyn Moody

     in reply to

     • Baruch 🇮🇱

     @baruch

     it's the sheer scale of civilian deaths that is so awful, because 2 million people have nowhere to go - whatever warnings they are given, they are pointless if nowhere is safe in Gaza...

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     Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 23:52:18 JST Glyn Moody

     in reply to

     • Baruch 🇮🇱

     @baruch not the figures that I have seen - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study.

     but the point is that israel has one of the most advanced armies in the world, and it should be able to use more surgical methods to destroy hamas - which I agree needs to be done. the current level of civilian deaths, and the destruction of homes, schools, infrastructure etc. is completely counterproductive. it will breed a new generation of palestnians who hate israel. peace will be even harder to achieve....

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     Baruch 🇮🇱 (baruch@babka.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 23:52:18 JST Baruch 🇮🇱

     in reply to

     @glynmoody Yes, those are the figures I am talking about. 61% is based on the inflated casualty numbers provided by Hamas. A comparable example to the war in Gaza to remove Hamas would be the Battle of Mosul in which US coalition forces fought to unseat ISIS. The US has one of the most advanced armies in the world and they had an 83% civilian casualty rate in that battle. 61% is lower than 83% by a wide margin. The numbers show there is nothing more Israel can do to save lives, despite all that we armchair quarterbacks might think. There simply is no nice, surgical war. The way to reduce casualties is to end the war.

     Evan Prodromou repeated this.
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     Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 23:52:29 JST Glyn Moody

     in reply to

     • Baruch 🇮🇱

     @baruch fight hamas by all means, but killing 20,000 civilians is simply not the way to do it. israel is squandering all the sympathy it had a couple of months ago by its brutal destruction of civilian populations and infrastructure.

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     Baruch 🇮🇱 (baruch@babka.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 23:52:29 JST Baruch 🇮🇱

     in reply to

     @glynmoody Israel has followed every procedure there is for minimizing civilian casualties, issuing warnings before attacks, providing safe passage for aid, and evacuating bystanders. The civilian casualty ratio in World War II was 65%, in the Korean War 74%, in the Persian Gulf War 87%, and in Iraq 66%. Israel has achieved a lower rate than those by all accounts, even when using the inflated numbers provided by Hamas. All this while fighting for their own survival against an enemy who is actively targeting civilians. There is a lot of death and destruction in war and the responsibility for that carnage is on the attacker, not the victim trying to save lives.

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     Baruch 🇮🇱 (baruch@babka.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 23:52:30 JST Baruch 🇮🇱

     in reply to

     @glynmoody Israel has no choice but to fight for survival until Hamas stops attacking. How many people have to die before Hamas gives up their homicidal lunacy?