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    :labrys-chaostar: ØtherwØrlder :labrys-chaostar: (0utside0utsider@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 10:16:38 JST :labrys-chaostar: ØtherwØrlder :labrys-chaostar: :labrys-chaostar: ØtherwØrlder :labrys-chaostar:
    • Arcanya :arcanya:
    @Arcana I do not have a deep familiarity with jewish history, so its not really something I feel qualified to speak on - certainly not from one essay.
    But, equating the zionism of the 1800's with the zionism of today strikes me as entirely ahistorical. That is right at the height of the most recent wave of pogroms happening in europe. It seems strange to frame revitalizing a forgotten tradition in that context as being foundationally imperialist. Even more when there has been over a century of cultural meaning transformation and drift into various Jewish communities? It's an assertion that just disregards the differences of contexts, which makes it kinda like shoddy history.

    I have no real idea of any historical truth in the claim that it was reconstructed into cultural relevance, one essay doesn't really make that more than an assertion (and if there is one thing i do know about jews its that they argue about shit w eachother) but even if it was, does that make it meaningfully coextensive with what the specific branch of zionism that became a colonial project? Is asserting that they are the same not retrocausual collective punishment?

    Also, coming in from left field on this one but,
    Speaking as (something roughly syncretic with being) a pagan, how does any specifically hellenic pagan going to go about critiquing any reconstructionist religious practice that may or may not have a basis in what could be debated as imperialism?
    Like, that is hellenic polytheisms entire reality. Hellenic culture was nothing but structurally imperial. The foundational flaw of all democracy is found in hellenic culture. There is a reason that, like many other pagan reconstructed traditions of imperial cultures, are in open contesting with ethnofascists who are also drawn to their mysteries. The modern hellenic (and others) polytheist/pagan community has done a great deal of trying to reclaim and reconstruct aspects if their worship without giving fascists breathing room, without upholding the exact political cultural origins. It would be just as absurd to assert that being a Hellenic pagan actually is secretly support for a slave based economy where the demos defines who is and is not worthy of consideration.

    Reconstructionism is good. Reclaiming reconstructions is good actually.
    The existence of ethnofascism within said religions is precisely the terrain of struggle over who gets to claim what. The fact of such a struggle is, on an ethical level, an assertion of nothing at all, because it is ubiquitous.
    In conversation Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 10:16:38 JST from social.xenofem.me permalink
    • :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: likes this.

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