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1. Embed this notice
   iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 15:44:40 JST iced depresso
   > Whatever the reason for refusal, the American Academy of Pediatrics advises that “clinicians have a legal and ethical responsibility to question and, if necessary, to contest” parental medical decisions that “put the patient at significant risk of serious harm.”7 Consistent with this recommendation, the largest study of its kind found that most oncologists reject parental refusals when treatment has a 33% or greater chance of success.2
   
   :blobcathuh: i sympathize with their frustration but letting doctors override bodily autonomy is a line i'm not willing to permit
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 18:50:16 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     @Amikke parents take care of raising the children though. the state doesnt, therefore the state has no right to them.
     
     the whole industry of declaring disagreeing with institutions as child abuse needs to be shot in the head.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 18:50:18 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     @icedquinn children don’t really have bodily autonomy, in this case it’s either parents or doctors overriding it. Children are people that shouldn’t suffer from more stupid decisions of their parents, so this is in line with the rest of how they’re treated.

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 18:53:44 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     @icedquinn this always seemed weird to me legally because a parent is legally responsible for a child but a doctor is not
     kaia likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 18:55:50 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @Moon i understand that dealing with children is bizzare. they are supposed to be too undeveloped to make their own decisions. but neither the parent nor the state really has a claim to their body since they are the one who has to suffer the consequences of whatever is done to it.
     
     the problem is being smart doesn't give you authority over other people. academia became useless the moment it decided knowing things gave them some right to command. it doesn't.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 18:58:26 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @Moon i know and don't care that people are going to hate me on this. when you start letting the state people's kids you have to be excruciatingly careful. because per natural law taking somethings childrens is inviting death. if they *don't* try to kill you for taking their offspring, they were unfit parents. that's just... how mammals work.
     
     go take a tarantula's babies.
     
     she will scream and bite.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 18:58:27 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     @icedquinn I can understand why there is a conflict here as there are plenty of bad parents but just punting to doctors authority is a terrible idea. the doctor is not required to care about your kid after they leave the doctor office.
     kaia likes this.
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     kaia (kaia@brotka.st)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 18:59:43 JST kaia

     in reply to
     @icedquinn
     the state has a responsibility for the welfare of all its citizens. parents make decisions in place of their children, because we agree that children cannot make rational decisions. in cases where parents cannot make irrational decisions due to e.g. mental illness or their religious affiliation, the state must intervene. this power is best delegated to experts and the decision process to intervene must be guarded by courts.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:02:24 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     @Amikke there is no right to healthcare. (this is the USA, you only have a "right" to medicine in bizzare authoritarian circumstances.)
   • Embed this notice
     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:02:25 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     @icedquinn this is a hard topic, as giving institutions control is dangerous but leaving it entirely with parents can be tragic. There are some things nearly everyone agrees on that parents shouldn’t be able to ruin. Forgoing education at all is one of them, forgoing early treatment with good success rate for a lethal problem at least comes close. Leaving a child to die a painful death because a parent is an idiot and will attempt to treat cancer with MMC is not good.
     Children aren’t their parents’ property and it makes sense that some of their rights as humans and citizens will be defended even against them.

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:07:07 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kaia
     @kaia
     > the state has a responsibility for the welfare of all its citizens.
     The primary function of the state is food distribution.
     > this power is best delegated to experts
     -> the problem is being smart doesn't give you authority over other people. academia became useless the moment it decided knowing things gave them some right to command. it doesn't.
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     Jens_Rasmussen (jens_rasmussen@gleasonator.com)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:08:04 JST Jens_Rasmussen

     in reply to

     • kaia
     @kaia @icedquinn Total ban on circumcision?
     kaia likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:08:08 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Jens_Rasmussen
     @Jens_Rasmussen @kaia religious freedom is a pretty hard rock of the USA's foundation, but we're somewhat unique about this.
     
     europe doesn't believe in free speech or religion
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:11:51 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Jens_Rasmussen
     @Jens_Rasmussen @kaia unnecessary circumcision of minors (no medical benefit) and what they do to the intersexed (just mutilating them even without any input) are good examples of why medicine has voided their moral authority though.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:14:54 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     @kaia @icedquinn it's just unfortunate because at least in the USA the state's obligation is general welfare not an individual's welfare. So there's kind of a responsibility gap.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:16:58 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     @Moon @kaia i haven't really known a state where the well being of individuals was ever a priority. the desmesne of statehood is typically food and warfare.
     
     medicine has always been a separate axis, historically one subject to a lot of survivorship bias.
     
     rockefellers married medicine to government corruption. its been a nightmare.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:18:19 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     @Moon @kaia case in point: historical evidence that american health has utterly cratered since the creation of the AMA.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:19:35 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Amikke
     • Jens_Rasmussen
     @Amikke @kaia @Jens_Rasmussen britain threw a journalist in jail for calling a rape gang (convicted) a rape gang.
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     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 19:19:36 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Jens_Rasmussen

     @icedquinn @kaia @Jens_Rasmussen american propaganda / stupid view on the rest of the world, Europe absolutely cares about free speech and only a couple of outlier countries limit it for extreme cases. (Like openly urging to violence, which is the case in the US too.) Similarly with religion, religious freedom is treated very seriously. (Probably more than in the US, since there it’s mostly a mask to let protestants do whatever they want, including where it infringes on freedom of other religions.)

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     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 21:04:20 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

     in reply to

     • kaia
     @kaia @icedquinn no this is a bad post, finally, bring back the muho ones
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     kaia (kaia@brotka.st)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 21:10:34 JST kaia

     in reply to

     • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
     @lain @icedquinn
     what's the alternative though? I can't and for the sake of our sanity will not give details, but I've seen cases where, if the state had intervened, children would still be alive. the suffering those children had to endure is beyond anything we can imagine.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 21:13:44 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
     @kaia @lain i was literally tortured by the state as a child.