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   Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:50:16 JST Johannes Ernst

   • Mike Masnick ✅
   • Mike McCue

   Listening to the first episode of @mike ‘s new podcast “Dot Social” on decentralized social networking with guest @mmasnick. They start off with discussion of his 2019 paper “Protocols, Not Platforms” and how, all of a sudden, the stagnant big social platforms are now being bypassed with rapid innovation by developers all over the fediverse.

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     Mike McCue (mike@flipboard.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:50:00 JST Mike McCue

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅

     @J12t @mmasnick Mastodon is truly open and federated but I think Bluesky is nevertheless contributing some important ideas to advance the social web. One of the most powerful is their approach to custom feeds - what they call a "marketplace for algorithms". Algos have gotten a bad rap because they've been a) black boxes which b) have been abused by walled gardens and c) resulted in the dissemination of hate speech and misinformation. But algos are key for discovery and I like Bluesky's approach.

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:50:02 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     @mmasnick seems to say, in @mike ‘s Dot Social Podcast, that he thinks significant innovation is more likely to happen on top of the future decentralized #bluesky network than on the #activitypub network. Not sure I heard this right, but if so, I would love to hear his reasoning because I sure don’t see it.

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:50:03 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅

     @mmasnick agrees with the innovation argument: just copying the closed internet platforms, as (so far) much of todays fediverse is doing is not particularly interesting. But we don’t really know yet what amazing new inventions we will see.

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:50:05 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike McCue

     @mike brings up a compelling argument for the #fediverse in a historical analogy with #aol: all the innovation around, say, travel in the closed AOL system back then could only come from AOL and whatever they could think up. It took the protocol-not-platform-centric decentralized web to catalyze the much broader innovation we’ve seen since, e.g. AirBnb is hard to imagine having been invented inside a closed system like AOL.

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:50:08 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue
     • Danny O'B

     @mike and @mmasnick move on in their podcast to discuss an (upcoming?) paper by @danny where he discusses the ultimate (“terminal”) values of what we are all trying to do here in the #fediverse. Apparently his take is that #decentralization is not all that important, control over one’s own thoughts and ideas is.

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 12:50:12 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     Now in the dot-social podcast episode, @mike and @mmasnick discuss how much #fediverse and #threads users understand the proposition of “own your followers”. They come to the conclusion: probably not much. (I would agree.)

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     Mike McCue (mike@flipboard.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 13:10:09 JST Mike McCue

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Ramin Honary

     @ramin_hal9001 @J12t @mmasnick I think it's to let humans connect in a way which is not owned by any corporation.

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     Ramin Honary (ramin_hal9001@emacs.ch)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 13:10:10 JST Ramin Honary

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     @J12t @mmasnick @mike why do we map things? To understand them? Why do we understand things? So we can control them?

     Is that why we want to map the entire social graph of all humans? So we can control it; control all humans?

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 13:10:12 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     @mmasnick says, on @mike’s podcast, that in spite of about 15 years of social networking in the mainstream, we haven’t really wrapped our minds around what it means to have a social graph “everywhere”.

     Indeed! Of course, we couldn’t, before the #fediverse, because even if we had figured it out, it would have been impossible to implement due to the centralization of the social platforms. But now we can!

     Social graph in your fridge? Here we come!!:-)

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 13:10:13 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     Gotta wholeheartedly agree with @mike’s point in his dot social podcast: this is an amazing time. So much opportunity! It’s like the early days of the web all over again!!

     @mmasnick thinks it’s certainly bigger than mobile, when the smartphone with apps became a thing, and I would agree with that, too.

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Nov-2023 13:10:15 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     @mmasnick and @mike, in their podcast episode, ponder what the new, compelling thing is that can be done with decentralized social media that couldn’t be done with centralized systems. They agree with each other that nobody knows yet, and that if history is any guide, the centralized systems first have to be rebuilt in a decentralized fashion before that likely becomes apparent.

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Monday, 04-Dec-2023 23:37:20 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Mike McCue
     • cultdev

     @J12t @cultdev @mike sorry, but you very much can move an account from one server to another and keep your followers. It's very smooth and easy in Mastodon!

     https://w3c.github.io/activitypub/data-portability-report.html

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     cultdev (cultdev@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Dec-2023 23:37:22 JST cultdev

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     @J12t @mike @mmasnick dang that sucks…

   • Embed this notice
     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 04-Dec-2023 23:37:22 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue
     • cultdev

     @cultdev @mike @mmasnick There is no particular technical reason why list of my friends could not move with me when I move accounts in the #Fediverse. It just needs to be recognized as a desirable feature, a protocol needs to be defined (wouldn't be surprised if it existed already) and then somebody needs to do the hard work convincing "everybody" who implements #ActivityPub that this is something they should add to their software.

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     Johannes Ernst (j12t@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 04-Dec-2023 23:37:24 JST Johannes Ernst

     in reply to

     • Mike Masnick ✅
     • Mike McCue

     I have a comment here, though: there is nothing in #activitypub or any other relevant standards that says that #fediverse software needs to allow you to take your followers from one instance to another. In other words, the #fediverse does not actually promise anybody that they can take their followers!

     (Maybe it should. I sure would like that. Some apps allow you to do that. But whether eg #threads ever implements it is entirely up to them)

     @mike @mmasnick