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1. Embed this notice
   Tim Bray (timbray@cosocial.ca)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:09:55 JST Tim Bray

   Palestinians know, based on history, that if they are forced to flee their homes for their own safety, it is very unlikely that they will ever be allowed to return.

   #Gaza #Israel

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:10:23 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Ed

     @peepstein he literally just said why

   • Embed this notice
     Ed (peepstein@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:10:24 JST Ed

     in reply to

     @timbray yet in most every war, it’s absolutely normal for each warring party to evacuate its civilians to protect them. Yet that doesn’t seem to be happening here for the most part (there are exceptions). Why do you think that is?

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:27:20 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Ed

     @peepstein it's not actually normal anymore. The UN charter explicitly says that wars of conquest are no longer acceptable. Chapter I, Article 2(4).

     Second, it's not possible for Palestinians to leave Gaza, and it has not been at least since the blockade.

     Third, the big sticking point of Palestinian-Israeli negotiations since Oslo is the right of return. Without that assurance, nobody wants to leave.

   • Embed this notice
     Ed (peepstein@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:27:21 JST Ed

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan not really. It’s normal at the end of wars for borders to move; it happens all the time and civilians end up displaced and/or living under different governance situations. But in general, most civilian preference is to exit the war zone as soon as possible. Some examples where that doesn’t happen very well, eg the partitioning of India and Pakistan, results in huge civilian population shifts and civilian deaths (two million deaths in that case). Is Hamas v Israel like that?

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:28:19 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Ed

     @peepstein Vox wrote a great article on the topic.

     https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23933707/israel-palestine-hamas-gaza-nakba-displacement-refugees-history

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:30:18 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Ed

     @peepstein since then, documents from the Intelligence Ministry of Israel have leaked, outlining a plan to depopulate Gaza.

     https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576