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   iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 08:56:13 JST iced depresso

   • Moffin'tosh
   @moffintosh
   > 96% of startups fail
   i saw the source for that figure in a business class. its based on small businesses don't file SEC forms after two years.
   
   this includes because they were acquired.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:11:25 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @Amikke @moffintosh tbh i stopped reading it after the small business misfigure.
     
     someone else put it more accurately that the rich kids can start many businesses, the middle class save their whole life for one shot at a business, and the poors never get to run one. that part is mostly accurate. (though the real advantage upper classmen have is that they have access to people who talk about money and such, whereas poors consider it taboo.)
     
     its actually uncommon in business to get totally wiped out. usually things have some reclaimable value, even if less than you started with. i've bought (and sold) old tech equiment on ebay and that's where i learned some odd lessons about whether warranty services are worth the markup or not.
     
     (like, if you pay full price for an MPC but Akai refuses to service it for an entire month. if you were doing production music you would be better off buying two used ones and no service than your production being shut down a month while you got free warranty service...)
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     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:11:26 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh

     @icedquinn @moffintosh always funny to see commies call the people managing resources “just moving around some numbers” when failing to properly do that is one of the bigger reasons why socialism always fails, and how commies managed to mismanage and fuck up an entire sea amongst other things. So close to understanding.

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:13:35 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @moffintosh @Amikke payment is supposed to be subject to opportunity cost. what else could they have done instead of doing this thing, and we're supposed to be compensating them for doing the thing they specialize in (at the cost of not being able to paint stuff, which is what they actually wanted to do.)
     
     it's a really small amount of people who get paid disproportionate to what they do. even logistics people have some high opportunity costs (they have to learn higher order mathematics, predictive modeling, etc, keeping warehouses stocked and functioning is.. a whole job.)
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     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@berserker.town)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:13:37 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Amikke

     @Amikke @icedquinn
     If they manage resources, they should be paid no more than the labour they put into it, not a cent more. Owning stuff isn't a job

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:20:50 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @Amikke @moffintosh i have a feeling this ultimately just comes back to a hatred of usury and money lenders.
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     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:20:51 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh

     @moffintosh @icedquinn their labour is worth around what they’re paid because a market-based economy operates on the actual results of work and not some random person’s judgement.

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:30:16 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @Amikke @moffintosh well VCs and usury in general is the definition of getting paid because you already have money. hatred of that goes all the way to biblical times (throwing over the money lender tables for using pilgrimages as a source of business, etc.)
     
     there is no real perspective where usurist is respectable. you are allowing someone else to borrow your risk-taking permission (money) in exchange for the same thing you're offering. the usurist inputs nothing, but owns everything.
     
     other jobs .. it's not really that simple. commies tend to be lifelong wagies butthurt that management makes more than stock boys. i keep talking to them on occasion to find smart ones--they just say dumb shit like "raise taxes," they don't actually have the wherewithal to figure out how to feed the school children for free.
     
     i used to hate business a bit more than i do now until i came to that realization. the company takes the bigger share because they are offering employees a unique service: they regularize the wages, and access to work.
     
     anyone who has done freelance work will know, intimately, the market doesn't pay you a weekly salary and doesn't give you jobs every day. your company does that. they regularize the irregular incomes and protect you from refunds and lawsuits and you still draw a paycheck even if the company made no money that week.
     
     this is an abstract thing most people probably never think about, because most people don't do anything or aspire to anything other than wage.
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     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:30:17 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh

     @icedquinn @moffintosh imo it comes back to wishful thinking and nor understanding the complexity of the world we live in and/or the human nature, usually due to wishful thinking.

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:34:06 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @Amikke @moffintosh there are a lot of people as well who actively dislike the minutae of business administration, and are quite happy to make less money to not have to do any of it.
     
     similarly why so many people sign their work to publishers. a small percent of a larger pie (where i just write book and get paid) is more desirable as a writer than having to deal with print shops and retail agreements.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:43:03 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @Amikke @moffintosh loss of investment is the only risk they put in, yes. however at the high level they don't even do that. the governments have been infected and turned to protect the worst usurers from their own consequences.
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     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:43:04 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh

     @icedquinn @moffintosh
     >the usurist inputs nothing
     the usurist inputs their risk judgement and the risk they'll lose their money. Because of the fact they're personally affected by the results and this ability belongs to people who were smart enough to earn it at best and not stupid enough to lose it all at worst, this results in miles better resource management than any half-baked gov official using their two brain cells to try to decide what people should be doing. They're a necessary evil.

     The combination of risk and management effort warranties big pay for anyone to be willing to do it, and most of the people whining about not having the ability to do it wouldn't want to do it anyway. They just want to slave away for stable comfortable life, in a world where the people they're envious of slave away alongside them.

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 09:48:17 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @Amikke @moffintosh usurists are so bad that christian society had to ban them outright, and others had to have regular debt jubiless because they were entangling people in to generational interest payments. basically, professional debt slavery. and once again we see government protecting the usurist (student loans can't be bankrupted, but credit default swaps were bailed out by the state.)
     
     historical records tend to speak very poorly of the profession. it is universally hated, virtually every profession hates usury (and bankers writ large), and scientific inquiries have shown that they aren't even good at their one supposed specialty (making accurate predictions where to allocate capital.)
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 10:05:41 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     @Amikke @moffintosh
     > neither, we’ll sort it out without the need for authorities and it’ll work out (it won’t)
     
     this actually does work to a certain population level. it stops working when you're drawing so many resources off the land that you have to resort to active management.
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     Amikke (amikke@qoto.org)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2023 10:05:42 JST Amikke

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh

     @icedquinn @moffintosh there is literally no better choice though. The way they work should be fixed/improved, especially the shitty state it’s in in the USA, but throwing out the entire form of managing resources has the problem that what’re you gonna replace it with?
     The answers are always combinations of:

     • same shit but we try to do it better this time
     • let’s leave the management of everything in the economy to politicians, what could go wrong?
     • neither, we’ll sort it out without the need for authorities and it’ll work out (it won’t)
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 04:45:58 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh
     • Miander
     @mian @moffintosh @Amikke coops can be fine.
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     Miander (mian@berserker.town)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 04:46:00 JST Miander

     in reply to

     • Amikke
     • Moffin'tosh

     @icedquinn
     I agree but there a better ways of doing the same thing like coops.
     @moffintosh @Amikke