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   Joshua Barretto (jsbarretto@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 21:08:41 JST Joshua Barretto

   I always find it funny when getting into arguments with libertarians and they're like "The profit motive is great. See? Look at my phone" and my response is "Dude... I've written some of the code that's running on your phone, and I did it for free. It's a device built on open standards and the unpaid labour of 100,000 unpaid nerds. You are not making the argument that you think you're making".

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     Joshua Barretto (jsbarretto@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 22:13:15 JST Joshua Barretto

     in reply to

     • BerlinFokus

     @berlinfokus I think there's an inherent tension here though: a non-profit, user-oriented phone market that internalises externalities (such as labour rights, environmental cost, etc.) wouldn't look much like the setup we have today. Phones would be designed for longevity and repair. Their manufacture would not be lucrative and would happen at a lower frequency. It's just a different definition of 'success' to that which existing manufacturers, driven by the profit motive, operate upon.

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     BerlinFokus (berlinfokus@berlin.social)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 22:13:18 JST BerlinFokus

     in reply to

     @jsbarretto

     🤔 hmm

     Maby "entering the market" alredy is the problem here.

     If it would be possible to attract more (especially poor people that have no "market-value") to maker-spaces, repair-shops, etc. and they can walk out with non-commercial devices that operate in an open-source environment (without ads and scams and all) .. that would be really something (dangerous).

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     Joshua Barretto (jsbarretto@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 22:13:21 JST Joshua Barretto

     in reply to

     • BerlinFokus

     @berlinfokus I think that's a fair criticism, although as mentioned: a lot of this is because the market is almost designed to make it difficult for competitors to enter. Regardless, I think we'll see a lot of non-profits (or non-profit-adjacent, with bylaws/goals that diverge significantly from your typical vendor, like Fairphone) entering the market.

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     BerlinFokus (berlinfokus@berlin.social)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 22:13:22 JST BerlinFokus

     in reply to

     @jsbarretto

     Still they can't organize enough to distribute open devices to the public.

     Which isn't an argument FOR the market, just AGAINST lazyness and staying in your box.